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Subject:
For airline pilots
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: actioncat-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
12 Mar 2005 09:19 PST
Expires: 11 Apr 2005 10:19 PDT Question ID: 493237 |
If you were to lose radio contact six hours into the flight enroute from Sydney to L.A., would you continue to L.A. or turn around and head for Fiji, or something else entirely? And, if your answer is "turn around," would you announce this to the passengers or keep it to yourself? |
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Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
Answered By: omnivorous-ga on 12 Mar 2005 13:03 PST Rated: |
Actioncat -- Since you seem to be satisfied with the answers, I'll post an "official" one so that this can be closed! Though Athena4-GA may not be an airline pilot, they've given you an excellent answer. In these days of heightened security, you might also expect a fighter escort upon arrival. But I digress. The lost communications procedures used by the airlines and international air traffic control follow those of the FAA in Airman's Information Manual, Section 4, "Two-Way Radio Communications Failure." The pilot is to continue on the route assigned or the flight plan. They are also to set their transponder to a code of 7600, which is used to highlight a radio failure. Of course, were there an emergency, the pilot is given a wide range of discretion for flying to the safest location. You may be interested in the Atlantic Flight Guide published by the FAA and its comments on two-way radio failure (p. 20): FAA "North Atlantic International General Aviation Operations Manual" (2004) http://www.faa.gov/ats/aat/IFIM/natsmanual.doc A good Google search strategy to search the AIM and rules is: "Airman's Information Manual" two-way radio communications failure Best regards, Omnivorous-GA |
actioncat-ga
rated this answer:
and gave an additional tip of:
$3.00
The answer was helpful, it was easy to understand, it was friendly, and as a bonus I got some helpful links to supplemental material. And I also appreciated those who answered "for free," that was very nice of them. |
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Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: nelson-ga on 12 Mar 2005 10:11 PST |
You would certainly need to inform the passengers, though you might just mention a minor technical problem. |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: nelson-ga on 12 Mar 2005 10:12 PST |
Let me rephrase: You would certainly need to inform the passengers, though you might just mention that is is due to an unspecified minor technical problem. |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: athena4-ga on 12 Mar 2005 10:51 PST |
I am not an airline pilot. There is no need to turn around or choose an alternate airport for lost communications - there are already accepted/established procedures for lost communications (for oceanic routes, ICAO documents describe these). So the answer is "continue to LAX). The passengers don't need to be concerned, but the pilots, at their discretion, may make an announcement of this fact. (If turned around or alternate airport is chosen for other reasons, pilots would make an announcement). Note also lost com is very unlikely as oceanic aircraft normally have 2 HF radios for long range communications and also Satcom (so the pilot can use the telephone through the satellite link). There are in addition 3 VHF radios the pilots can use to communicate to nearby aircraft (if within range of about 200 miles) to relay information to ATC. Modern aircraft also have controller pilot data link communications (CPDLC) and automatic dependent surveillance (ADS) to report the aircraft's position to ATC on a data link (not voice) automatically. If all of them fail, the established procedures (ICAO) take over. |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: omnivorous-ga on 12 Mar 2005 12:43 PST |
Actioncat -- Though Athena4-GA may not be an airline pilot, they've given you an excellent answer. In these days of heightened security, you might also expect a fighter escort upon arrival. But I digress. The lost communications procedures used by the airlines and international air traffic control follow those of the FAA in Airman's Information Manual, Section 4, "Two-Way Radio Communications Failure." The pilot is to continue on the route assigned or the flight plan. They are also to set their transponder to a code of 7600, which is used to highlight a radio failure. Of course, were there an emergency, the pilot is given a wide range of discretion for flying to the safest location. You may be interested in the Atlantic Flight Guide published by the FAA and its comments on two-way radio failure (p. 20): FAA "North Atlantic International General Aviation Operations Manual" (2004) http://www.faa.gov/ats/aat/IFIM/natsmanual.doc A good Google search strategy to search the AIM and rules is: "Airman's Information Manual" two-way radio communications failure Best regards, Omnivorous-GA |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: pinkfreud-ga on 12 Mar 2005 12:51 PST |
It sounds to me as if this question is describing one of the plot elements of the ABC television series "Lost." |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: actioncat-ga on 12 Mar 2005 12:57 PST |
Indeed it is, pinkfreud -- it was driving me nuts, and I don't know any pilots to ask. Thank you ALL for your comments, I appreciate it very much! I'm not sure how this question deal works but I would have been happy to pay for any one of the answers, if it's not answered "officially." You've been very helpful, thank you for taking the time! |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: athena4-ga on 12 Mar 2005 15:22 PST |
Thank you for the compliments, omnivorous-ga. I didn't know it was a plot of a TV series, pinkfreud-ga! (Of course, then all bets are off and you'd have to accept their version of events, which may or may not have to do with reality). Lost communication procedures have been established for a long time - and the US domestic rules are prescribed by the FAA and the Oceanic rules are as per ICAO (International Civil Aviation Organization) and are usually accepted as is (Member countries can modify them if required and publish them). An additional tidbit is that on the north atlantic tracks, you can almost always find another airplane (a few) within VHF range as there is a lot of airline traffic. In the Pacific, it is somewhat less probable. [athena4-ga happens to be a him (and happens to be helping create an oceanic "passing" procedure at the moment)]. |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: omnivorous-ga on 12 Mar 2005 16:14 PST |
Athena4 -- Have you ever met Margrit Waltz, the well-known ferry pilot? A link for you: http://www.aviating.com/mooney/past/progr4.htm Best regards, Omnivorous-GA |
Subject:
Re: For airline pilots
From: athena4-ga on 12 Mar 2005 16:20 PST |
Omnivorous - no, but thanks for the webpage. Sounds like an interesting occupation! I have never done ocean crossing in a general aviation airplane. Best Regards. |
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