Can someone identify for me a completely anonymous method of
conducting money transfers over the web? I am seeking a method to
conduct 100% anonymous electronic cash transfers. Does such a system
exist yet? A qualifying answer should provide a method of moving funds
from one person to another, electronically, in a manner which is as
untracable as hard currency, and prevents the payer from knowing the
true identity of the payee.

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Clarification of Question by maxhodges-ga on 24 Apr 2002 21:34 PDT

aaronsw-ga

Yes, I am aware of DigiCash, Chaum, and Applied Cryptography, Sealand,
and the cypherpunks. I simply want to know if anyone has built it yet.
Another great resource on this topic is an essay by Tim May in the
reprint of Vernor Vinge's "True Names"
Thanks for the comment!

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Clarification of Question by maxhodges-ga on 25 Apr 2002 02:53 PDT

coweyes-ga wrote:
>>it would be OK for somebody to give a card to another person who
would
be untraceable by the issuer

Thanks for the info about Mondex, but the question doesn't permit a
physical handoff--otherwise might as well use hard currency (legal
tender, precious metals, etc.)

No, I am not thinking about kidnapping anyone, but think "ransom".
Looking for a system that would allow the kidnapper to collect in a
ransom scenario. There are legal uses for such a system, just as there
are legal uses for cash. For example, maybe Scott the Skydiver doesn't
want his bank or credit card company to know he just booked a
reservation with SkyDiving Adventures because his insurance company
might buy his transaction history, classify him as "risk taker" and
raise his rates.

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Request for Question Clarification by gnovos-ga on 22 May 2002 16:08 PDT

Does this system have to be reflexive?  By that I mean, do both the
payer and the payee need to be completely anonymous?  Or does the
anonymity only need to hold true for the payee?

Also, how absolute does the anonymity need to be?  If you are looking
for an absolutly untraceable under *any* circumstances, then I can
tell you now that such a system does not and can not exist.

Hi there-

(***Please Read Disclaimer at bottom of email***)

First it is my belief that it is possible to have a completely
anonymous transaction. However it is not simple to get the necessary
pieces setup and it is also somewhat costly. Here is how I would
suggest doing it:

The first part of the puzzle is to screen your IP address and all
information that is associated with physically what/where you are
surfing from.

1)	Purchase a piece of software from Zero Knowledge Systems called
Websecure. (http://www.freedom.net/products/websecure/). This piece of
software once installed and enabled encrypts (128bit) and routes all
of your surfing traffic through a series of Zero Knowledge proxy
servers. This keeps your IP address from appearing to any of the sites
you visit.

The second piece of the puzzle is to setup an anonymous bank account.
There are a variety of companies that provide anonymous offshore
accounts. They are not cheap. In my research it has averaged about
$1000.00 to set one up. Here are some of the companies I found that
will let you set up an anonymous offshore bank account:
1)	Cardster (http://www.cardster.net) Specific service page –
(http://www.cardster.net/anonymous_offshore_bank_account.htm)
2)	Finor (http://www.finor.com) Specific service page-
(http://www.finor.com/en/anonymous_bank_accounts.htm) Note: This
company actually takes your information and then sets up an anonymous
account with another bank on your behalf. Their thing is that they
have to know you and then they will protect your privacy once they
know you.
3)	Alpha Offshore (http://www.1alpha-offshore.com) Specific service
page: (http://www.1alpha-offshore.com/Offshore-Anonymous-Cirrus-Debit-Cards.htm)
– Note: I like this one the best. It is the most straightforward and
not “gimmicky.”

Now once you are surfing the web anonymously and you have anonymous
bank account, now it is time for you find an e-payment service where
you “accidentally” fill out the majority of the signup form with
information other than your own – except the bank account information
and the brand new hotmail account email address of course. Now you are
ready to transfer money using one of the following payment transaction
services:
1)	Paypal (http://www.paypal.com)
2)	Billpoint (http://www.billpoint.com)
3)	E-Gold (http://www.e-gold.com)
4)	NetPay (http://www.netpay.tv)

At this point whoever you send money to using the payment service will
have no way of tracking the payment back to you.

To make the transaction completely untraceable the recipient should go
through the steps above to get to the point where they have an
untraceable e-payment account as well.

Do beware that Paypal and others will ask questions about large
transactions. I recently sold some teak furniture for close to
$3000.00 and a Paypal security representative sent me an email asking
me to confirm the transaction and explain what it was. I responded and
then never heard from them again.

I recognize that this isn’t an easy or straightforward system. But
sending anonymous payments and receiving them can be done if the right
groundwork is laid in advance.

(DISCLAIMER)
Also as a disclaimer, I have not actually tried to do this and I don’t
recommend incorrectly filling out web signup forms. This is purely a
theoretical thought exercise to see if an anonymous exchange of money
can be accomplished using an alternative method to actually handing
physical currency over.

-iamchmod

Thanks! Probably as straight-forward as could be. Appreciate it!

To the best of my knowledge, no such system exists due to the fact
that such a system would obviously be very open to abuse. That being
said, you can open a paypal account (www.paypal.com) and the payee
would only know your email address on file. Should the payee complain
though, paypal would be able to lock you out of your account and could
easily trace who you are for authorities since you must provide
somewhere for them to send money (either a check or bank account
transfer).

For complete annonymity you could consider opening up a P.O. Box,
though many online payment services are weary of sending checks to a
P.O. Box.

No, is the best answer you will get....Post a deposit ...you leave a
trail ...pick up a payment online you leave a trail ...just the thing
you
wish to avoid ...

David Chaum[1] has done a lot of research into electronic anonymous
cash,  culminating with his company DigiCash[2]. Unfortunately
DigiCash died, but the dream lives on in the hearts of many
cypherpunks. One of the most promising projects is OpenDBS[3], run by
the hardned cryptographers of Sealand. Unfortunately, they're still
working out deals with banks and haven't launched yet.

[1] http://www.chaum.com/
[2] http://digicash.com/
[3] http://opendbs.org/

If you're interested in the techniques of anonymous electronic cash, I
suggest reading Applied Cryptography[4]. It discusses Chaumian Blinded
Signatures (Chaum's tool for anonymous cash) in detail.

[4] http://www.counterpane.com/applied.html

It depends what you mean by "100% anonymous" - a simple type of
anonymity is to be able to send and receive money without having to
use a system which allows you to be personally traced. I suppose the
ultimate anonymous system would be one where the sender, the recipient
and any intermediaries were all unable to trace the provenance of a
transaction. That might be a difficult system to market since it would
be hard for anybody to verify a transaction had taken place.

This is an old ('96) but fairly informative page which looks at the
anonymity of various systems (many now defunct).

http://www.npsnet.com/danf/emoney-anon.html

I worked on the "Mondex" cash system prior to its first trial in 1995.
This is a de-centralised smart card system which made the claim that
it was "just like cash". In fact each Mondex card keeps a record of
the last x transactions and contains an ID number which allows it to
be traced back to the issuer if it is lost. It is up to the issuer
whether or noth they keep track of who they issue to the card to and
it would be OK for somebody to give a card to another person who would
be untraceable by the issuer - but that is still a few steps away from
cash like anonymity. I think for the banks who developed Mondex the
idea of a de-centralised money system was already pretty radical in
itself - to make it it >>really<< anonymous was probably a step too
far.

Online anonymous transactions (in my opinion) could not be possible. 
All servers keep logs of the IP's and more.  The more being the
headers which contain identifying information such as the MAC (Media
Access Conrtol).  The MAC address can identify the modem/NIC used, and
records of where/when you go can (and usually are) linked back to the
ISP and kept in logs.  If you use a modem, the number you dialed in
from would also be in that log.  If you want to remain anonymous, the
best way to do so would be the old leave the money "here at this time"
and leave.  (you know, from the movies)  In the instance of "Scott the
Skydiver", you can use PayPal to take the money from your bank account
(checking/savings) or your credit card.  PayPal in turn offers a
service that gives you a "MasterCard-like" number.  It acts and works
just like a checking account debit card, but you would have to look
into contacting PayPal as to whether this information is ever sold or
if they keep it only for their records.  Remeber, this is in my
opinion from my own knowledge.  MAy the answer will come up for you
after all.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that it is impossible to
legally send money over the internet with anonymity. This is because
various governments across the globe object to any such methods as it
makes criminal transactions easier (yes, I know, it's not fair that we
all have to suffer because of a few!)

Of course it's easy to point out the flaws in their way of thinking
(criminals wouldn't use their real details) but unfortunately that's
the way it has to be. I worked on a project similar to paypal back in
the 90s, which fell at the first hurdle because of these restrictions.

ofcourse the anonymity solution depends entirely on the 
http://www.freedom.net/products/websecure/ product .  but even if the
traffic itself is hidden or encrypted the actual connection from your
computer to the servers on freedom.net may not be. systems like
"carnivore" are now in place. and the servers of zeroknowledge are
proberly on the HOT watch list these days. and will likely be for the
known future
some might argue that the servers are located offshore(which doesn't
really mean a a lot). but the forget. the connections going thru are
done thru routers and these routers are located in the US (and
ofcourse elsewhere).

Assuming that you can communicate with your customer with anonymity
(see earlier posts) you may be able to persuade him to open a bank
account that has an ATM facility.  If you persuade your customer to
buy a magnetic card reader writer he would be able to copy the details
from the magnetic card strip and send these along with the PIN number
to you.  You could thus clone the card (and even change the PIN if
necessary).  Whenever you traded he could put money into 'his' account
and you could withdraw the money from anywhere in the world.  For
further details google credit card cloning and magnetic
reader/writers.

The P.O.Box idea from one of the commentator may or may not work
depending on the kind of anonymity you're seeking.

The Post Office is legally required to give you the identity and the
home address of someone with a P.O.Box if it is registered as a
business PO Box, or failing that if you can prove that it is being
used for business purposes.

Privately owned PO Boxes are another option, but since some of the 911
terrorists used "Mailbox, etc.", the government has started to crack
down on their use.