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Q: Website Optimization ( No Answer,   5 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Website Optimization
Category: Computers > Internet
Asked by: supersst-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 08 Apr 2005 11:16 PDT
Expires: 08 May 2005 11:16 PDT
Question ID: 506841
Can someone give me an unbiased opinion and recommendation of whether
or not hiring a professional web optimization company is necessary to
drive traffic to an on line company I'm in the process of creating
(and if so, can you recommend some companies). I understand that some
of these companies can charge anywhere from $5,000-$50,000 depending
on the size of the site and the industry the company's in.

As well, a friend of mine recommended I build the website using
Macromedia's new FLEX technology. I would like the site to be fairly
interactive with on line ordering capability and user friendly. Any
recommendation regarding FLEX?

Thanks.

Request for Question Clarification by alienintelligence-ga on 08 Apr 2005 12:54 PDT
Hi supersst...

Making a business work and having it 
operate as a profitable venture is 
what every entrepreneur strives for.

So, allow me to answer in brief your
question as it relates to all businesses
and not just those online.

Any 'new' company will have associated
start-up costs. The first few years of
a company is typically the make or break
period. Money out will usually be much
more than money in. When seeking any
consultation or professional help to
make a company profitable, you have to
be aware of the bottom-line. 

Essentially what this means is. If you
can project the earnings expected over
the short term, 1 year or so, and you
find that budgeting in $xx amount of
dollars for yy consultation will still
allow you to operate in a break even
or profitable manner, and that the
consultation has added to this bottom
line more than it has taken away, it 
would seem prudent to seek the help.

But, if whatever company you seek to
help you is just increasing their
bottom line at your expense, you
really don't need their help.

Additionally, if you are taking on
a venture where you have considerable
competition and you don?t have a 
niche product or service and don?t 
have unlimited funds backed by a
Trumpster, you will probably fail.

The obvious structure to strive
for here, is then evident. A new
company with as little competition
as possible, with a key product
or service that is not readily
available from another source at
a better pricing point and the
funds to keep it going until it
becomes self-sufficient.

Following that structure, you 
will not need any company to
take your money, just to help
your traffic. 

The following would seem an obvious 
plug considering where we are? 
but there is no better method 
of increasing/creating traffic
than having a world-wide known
search engine like Google rank
you high in their results. In
fact, search engine ranking can
be a make or break situation
for most online companies.

Two companies owned by two
of my friends see their biggest
potential realized from Google
searches. Two new companies, that
are barely a couple years old
are now making tens of thousands
in net profits a year, the 
majority of the traffic from
the leading search engines.

They didn?t pay for any outside
help or consultations, they just
followed the very simple rules
for making a website visible and
rank well on search engines. You
don?t need to pay someone to do
that for you. Because if you do,
you will have to pay them every
time your website has a structure
change.

If you feel you must spend money
on some sort of online advertising,
you can also try Google Adwords.
[ https://adwords.google.com/select/ ]
A straight forward approach to 
directing traffic thru keyword
selection. Done properly, the
results are great.

Someone else will have to comment
on the Macromedia software? my
ultimate thriftiness has me making
web pages, the old-fashioned way, 
a simple text editor.
[ https://www.ultraedit.com/store/customer/product.php?productid=16137&cat=253&page=1
]

-AI

Clarification of Question by supersst-ga on 08 Apr 2005 14:08 PDT
While I appreciate your response, I find it hard to believe that the
market for SEOs (Search Engine Optimization companies) was entirely
created by companies willing to waste money on something they could
have done on there own.

I guess I'm already convinced that the ROI I would receive from an SEO
would justify the initial expense. What I'm looking for is someone who
has gone through the experience of attempting to increase traffic to
its website on their own (with what kind of success) and then later
deciding to hire an SEO (with what kind of success).

With this first hand knowledge I figured a recommendation could be
given......"Yes after hiring an SEO my website received 5x the amount
of hits it did before I hired them, when I attempted to use key words
and google ads to increase the traffic."

"I used XYZ SEO and would highly recommend them......Or, I used XYZ
SEO but would not go with them again, I've learned of a much better
SEO that I would highly recommend."

I guess you're right AI, it's always about money out vs. money in for
an entrepreneur. I'm committed to sending this money out, I just want
to know, with a higher degree of success, with whom should I spend
this money.

Request for Question Clarification by alienintelligence-ga on 08 Apr 2005 14:46 PDT
Well, just to be clear, you
DID ask for an unbiased opinion
whether SEOs were necessary to
make a successful online business.

In addition, I presume you wanted 
an opinion from someone who's been 
in the business for a while. For 
which I qualify.

I have been working with websites 
since the current internet has been 
?around?. I have also owned my own 
computer business for longer than the
(present) internet has been around. 
Plus I currently own and have owned 
several brick and mortar companies 
that are profitable and that I have 
sold at a profit. My qualifications 
to answer with an opinion are clear.

Since this doesn?t seem to be acceptable
to you, I probably cannot help you further.

I can tell you at best, SEO?s will
take your money. At worst, they are
a scam, and will still take your money.
[ http://www.thebluesmokeband.com/seo.scam.php ]
[ ://www.google.com/webmasters/seo.html ]
[ http://forums.seochat.com/archive/t-12206/TrafficPowercom-CrapPower ]
[ http://www.stratecomm.com/seo_services/webopt_scscam.html ]
Excerpt:
?Search engine optimization is a discipline
that has evolved rapidly over the last
year. Many techniques that were once
considered advanced are now considered
search engine spam. The technology of
search engines has rapidly improved, and
any tricks that are out there which try to
fool the engines may work today, and get
your site banned tomorrow.?

[ http://www.internetbasedmoms.com/seo/seo-scam.html ]
Excerpt:
? As mentioned, submitting will not get
your page indexed, no matter how many
times it is submitted. Also there are
only 3 search engines that you need to
be listed in that will deliver you any
significant referrals -- Google (41%),
Yahoo (27%), MSN (19%) and the #4 ranked
search engine in terms of referrals is
Ask Jeeves (2%).?


I eagerly await a contradiction from 
another researcher that will involve 
a success story.

-AI

Clarification of Question by supersst-ga on 09 Apr 2005 09:59 PDT
The answer I was looking for was along the lines of lrulrick-ga and
wrx-ga rolled into one (I 100% agree with what they are saying) with a
few more SEO recommendations. I asked this question because I assumed
that there were some very good and trustworthy SEOs out there, I just
did not want to learn all about SEOs and website optimization in order
to make an informed decision. The web designers I've hired to build
the site do not have SEO expertise that is why I'm looking for someone
with such expertise that can give me a recommendation on how to avoid
the scam artist SEO versus the legitimate SEO.

Maybe my question wasn't clear enough because I did ask for an
opinion. However, it seems to me like anyone with experience in this
area would be able to tell me what to look for in an SEO and what
questions to ask. I worked for an on line company that spent aprox.
$15,000/year to better position its website. I left the company before
I got to see the results internally, however based on my google and
yahoo searches they seem to always appear in the top five search
results........I've got to think that the SEO had something to do with
this.

At this point I have a recommendation for Jill Whalen at
www.highrankings.com, but I'm still unsure of what I need to ask her
in order to know if she will position my site using legal techniques
and that the money she is charging me is getting used in a efficient
manner.

You can change your oil yourself (that's not my intention), you can
take your car to Wal Mart (I don't want my oil filter to fall off), or
I can go to this guy who has been changing oil for 10 years and has
never had a car come back to him (He came highly recommended by a
mechanic friend of mine).

Are there any researchers out there that have SEO expertise, and can
they appreciate what I'm getting at.

Maybe I'm way off base........
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Website Optimization
From: webadept-ga on 08 Apr 2005 15:12 PDT
 
Hi, 

For the most part I agree with alienintelligence-ga. You could do a
bit of research, learn to write in a way that will create relevant
pages, learn to create your page structures so that they index well,
without the expense of an SEO... for all the reasons given by
alienintelligence-ga and many more. Bottom line is he is right.

Fact of the matter is, it is a lot like tuning up your car and
changing the oil. A little study, the right tools and you are in
there. Not much can go wrong if you take notes and don't strip the
plug inside your aluminium head.

That's the way I look at it these days. The question remains however,
do you want to do it, or have someone else do it? There are many
people who prefer to change their own oil. They think they are saving
money. Perhaps they are.

If your goal is not to "roll your own" perhaps a suggestion would be
to find an SEO experienced writer, rather than highering a possible
scam artist.

These are all just suggestions, I'm not really interested in answering
the quesiton.

webadept-ga
Subject: Re: Website Optimization
From: lrulrick-ga on 08 Apr 2005 18:44 PDT
 
The benefit to hiring a SEO company is that you save yourself the time
involved in studying and keeping up to date on new trends and new
developments in the search engine industry. It is quite possible if
you take the time to invest in learning to reach the same level of
expertise as a reliable SEO firm. The main reason to be susceptible is
that:

A. this is a skill that can be learned by any web site owner, designer

B. many firms offering the service are "gimmick" firms, often usinging
blacklisted tricks in order to achieve a quick search ranking that
then tends to get your site blacklisted or search drops dramatically
after a short time, therefore wasting your money completely and often
putting your site even further from where you started.

Not to say that the service should be banned entirely. Many companies
offer this service and are very reliable. One reason to choose to use
a high rated company is because if you are just starting your web site
you may not have the amount of time required in order to learn the
trade techniques needed. Would you rather be working on developing
your product line or one trying to sort through hundreds of documents
learning how to better increase search results. And because search
engines often change and improve you will have to continuously stay on
top of new trends and monitor your results and stats to see where your
site stands.

When weighing these options, please keep in mind a few things. Time is
money in most cases and you need to decide which is of higher value to
your site at this time. Do you have the time to learn the techniques?
Do you have the money to pay someone else?

If you choose to go with a SEO firm- remember that many good reliable
firms are out there and I have seen very few of them that come to you-
any offers that come to you, most likely need to be added to your
deleted mail. Always be aware of those companies that make promises
and suggest that they have a "special" agreement with any search
engines. Search engines do not make special arrangements with any SEO
companies to improve or guarantee search results.


As for FLEX, I recently looked over a wide range of sites now using
Flex, and found them to be almost everything they have been braggin
about. I had a few concerns on the resulting errors with coding
inconsistancies but other than a few minor glitches- it seems rather
great. If you look around the marcomedia site you can find quite a bit
of information on the programing and user guides forums etc.
Subject: Re: Website Optimization
From: wrx-ga on 08 Apr 2005 21:45 PDT
 
Saying that paying a SEO company to handle your site promotion is a
waste of money because you can learn how to do it yourself - and do it
yourself - is only accurate to the extent that paying anybody to do
anything (like service your car) is a waste of money because you can
learn how to do it yourself and do it yourself. A lot of places
offering car servicing overcharge and do poor work. A lot of SEO
companies are the the same. But you can find honest mechanics, and
honest SEO companies. I can recomend Jill Whalen -
www.highrankings.com - in the latter category for US-based sites and
www.zenwebsolutions.com for UK-based Web sites.
Subject: Re: Website Optimization
From: supersst-ga on 09 Apr 2005 09:45 PDT
 
The answer I was looking for was along the lines of lrulrick-ga and
wrx-ga rolled into one (I 100% agree with what they are saying) with a
few more SEO recommendations. I asked this question because I assumed
that there were some very good and trustworthy SEOs out there, I just
did not want to learn all about SEOs and website optimization in order
to make an informed decision. The web designers I've hired to build
the site do not have SEO expertise that is why I'm looking for someone
with such expertise that can give me a recommendation on how to avoid
the scam artist SEO versus the legitimate SEO.

Maybe my question wasn't clear enough because I did ask for an
opinion. However, it seems to me like anyone with experience in this
area would be able to tell me what to look for in an SEO and what
questions to ask. I worked for an on line company that spent aprox.
$15,000/year to better position its website. I left the company before
I got to see the results internally, however based on my google and
yahoo searches they seem to always appear in the top five search
results........I've got to think that the SEO had something to do with
this.

At this point I have a recommendation for Jill Whalen at
www.highrankings.com, but I'm still unsure of what I need to ask her
in order to know if she will position my site using legal techniques
and that the money she is charging me is getting used in a efficient
manner.

You can change your oil yourself (that's not my intention), you can
take your car to Wal Mart (I don't want my oil filter to fall off), or
I can go to this guy who has been changing oil for 10 years and has
never had a car come back to him (He came highly recommended by a
mechanic friend of mine).

Are there any researchers out there that have SEO expertise, and can
they appreciate what I'm getting at.

Maybe I'm way off base........
Subject: Re: Website Optimization
From: lrulrick-ga on 09 Apr 2005 19:21 PDT
 
A few things to ask a SEO company:

request references, not just names and numbers but require web
addresses and key words, key phrases to the sites in order to check
ranking and verify results yourself. Then check with the web site
owner to get more information, how long untill they saw results,
overall happiness with the work and if there where any issues that
came up.

ask what type of optimazation they work with, natural or aggressive ppc. 

will they be submitting the site to other site directories in order to
increase exposure and if so ask about the types of listings they
submit to. Avoid anything that looks like a link farm.

Avoid anyone offering to make specialized doorway pages with
redirects. This often is a bad sign. Not always but often.

Have your designer go over any coding done to your site, alot of scam
companies l=place hiden llinks back to their site on yours.


Does this help? If you would like more info in this line of do and
don'ts would be happy to help@

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