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Subject:
Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference Asked by: oneisnotprime-ga List Price: $2.00 |
Posted:
28 May 2005 15:15 PDT
Expires: 27 Jun 2005 15:15 PDT Question ID: 526728 |
In Josh McDowell's 'The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict', Chapter 'Old Tesstament Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ', Section 1C, regarding Gen. 49:10 as a Messianic Prophecy fulfilled by Jesus, the text states: "...Yes, the scepter was removed and Judah lost its royal or legal power. And the Jews knew it themselves! 'Woe unto us, for the scepter has been taken from Judah, and the Messiah has not appeared!' (Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto.). Little did they realize their Messiah was a young Nazarene walking in the midst of them." I am trying to find this passage in the cited section of the Talmud, but I cannot locate it. I do not have a printed Talmud, but it is available online, for instance here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm. I have searched everywhere in the given chapter, but cannot find this reference. I am trying to find this passage in the Talmud text (specifically, I'd like the name of the Rabbi who said it, but I'd like to see the context too). Please provide a link to a Talmud text where this passage is present. Thanks, Josh |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: waukon-ga on 28 May 2005 20:44 PDT |
The citation is odd. http://www.voicefromzion.org/artman/publish/article_32.shtml I assume Jochanan is Jochanan ben Zakkai. Until relatively recently, (the last 25 years or so) the Talmud simply did not exist in English, and insofaras I understand it, portions of it remain untranslated. The whole translation project itself is controversial -- mainly pilpuls over the quality of the translation. What's happening, it seems, is that there is an American-led movement to codify the Talmud, i.e., to reduce it to a wonderfully well-organized, throughly cross-indexed library full of books. Are you dispensationalist or into Anglo-Israelitism. |
Subject:
Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: politicalguru-ga on 29 May 2005 01:17 PDT |
Dear Josh, I've just read Sanhedrin Ch. 4 (in the original language). I'm afraid that not only that such a quote does not appear there, but also that the whole tract deals with interpretations or rules to the religious Penal Code, and in the case of Ch. 4, to interrogation regulations. I could link you to the original, but this, as I said, would not contain even something similar... http://www.mechon-mamre.org/b/h/h44.htm |
Subject:
Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: waukon-ga on 29 May 2005 02:24 PDT |
politicalguru-ga did a pissy pilpul. As a frail Christian lacking belief, I can attest to his knowledge. And politicalguru-ga perhaps wants to know why this blue-eyed-blond white boy passed age 55 who has been baptized knows what a pilpul is. |
Subject:
Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:09 PDT |
I own a Talmud and I checked that folio - 37 - yet I find no such text. Either the book you read had forged the text, or they made a mistake in citing the correct folio. It is indeed a shame that all too often texts are forged from the Talmud, just to attract members too their religion. I once read an online article where qoute after qoute from the Talmud was in fact a misqoute. I, of course, could be mistaken. I will therefore continue researching the matter. |
Subject:
Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:15 PDT |
I'm afraid that you, political guru, have provided a link which contains only the Mishnaic portions of the Talmud, without providing the Gemaraic portion. I therefore assume that when you read through the entire Chapter you were reffering to the Mishnaic protions - which the above qoute clearly would never originate from. |
Subject:
Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:40 PDT |
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_37.html This link contains only folio 37, in which you can see for yourself that no such qoute exists. I will continue researching, however. |
Subject:
Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:58 PDT |
As I continue my research, I will continue to post dicoveries. I used a book which contains all Agadaic statements, in alphabetical order. I looked under the word "OY" (Woe), and I found many satements which start with that word. None, however, were your qoute. That book, however, is not exaustive. I will, therfore, continue my research. It might take a while because my personal library, and my university library, does not contian many works on the Talmud. |
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