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Q: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online ( No Answer,   7 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: oneisnotprime-ga
List Price: $2.00
Posted: 28 May 2005 15:15 PDT
Expires: 27 Jun 2005 15:15 PDT
Question ID: 526728
In Josh McDowell's 'The New Evidence that Demands a Verdict', Chapter
'Old Tesstament Prophecies Fulfilled in Jesus Christ', Section 1C,
regarding  Gen. 49:10 as a Messianic Prophecy fulfilled by Jesus, the
text states:

"...Yes, the scepter was removed and Judah lost its royal or legal
power.  And the Jews knew it themselves!  'Woe unto us, for the
scepter has been taken from Judah, and the Messiah has not appeared!'
(Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto.).  Little did they
realize their Messiah was a young Nazarene walking in the midst of
them."

I am trying to find this passage in the cited section of the Talmud,
but I cannot locate it.  I do not have a printed Talmud, but it is
available online, for instance here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm.  I have searched
everywhere in the given chapter, but cannot find this reference.

I am trying to find this passage in the Talmud text (specifically, I'd
like the name of the Rabbi who said it, but I'd like to see the
context too). Please provide a link to a Talmud text where this
passage is present.

Thanks,

Josh
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: waukon-ga on 28 May 2005 20:44 PDT
 
The citation is odd.

http://www.voicefromzion.org/artman/publish/article_32.shtml

I assume Jochanan is Jochanan ben Zakkai.

Until relatively recently, (the last 25 years or so) the Talmud simply
did not exist in English, and insofaras I understand it, portions of
it remain untranslated. The whole translation project itself is
controversial -- mainly pilpuls over the quality of the translation.
What's happening, it seems, is that there is an American-led movement
to codify the Talmud, i.e., to reduce it to a wonderfully
well-organized, throughly cross-indexed library full of books.

Are you dispensationalist or into Anglo-Israelitism.
Subject: Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: politicalguru-ga on 29 May 2005 01:17 PDT
 
Dear Josh, 

I've just read Sanhedrin Ch. 4 (in the original language). I'm afraid
that not only that such a quote does not appear there, but also that
the whole tract deals with interpretations or rules to the religious
Penal Code, and in the case of Ch. 4, to interrogation regulations.

I could link you to the original, but this, as I said, would not
contain even something similar...

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/b/h/h44.htm
Subject: Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: waukon-ga on 29 May 2005 02:24 PDT
 
politicalguru-ga did a pissy pilpul. As a frail Christian lacking
belief, I can attest to his knowledge. And politicalguru-ga perhaps
wants to know why this blue-eyed-blond white boy passed age 55 who has
been baptized knows what a pilpul is.
Subject: Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:09 PDT
 
I own a Talmud and I checked that folio - 37 - yet I find no such
text. Either the book you read had forged the text, or they made a
mistake in citing the correct folio. It is indeed a shame that all too
often texts are forged from the Talmud, just to attract members too
their religion. I once read an online article where qoute after qoute
from the Talmud was in fact a misqoute. I, of course, could be
mistaken. I will therefore continue researching the matter.
Subject: Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:15 PDT
 
I'm afraid that you, political guru, have provided a link which
contains only the Mishnaic portions of the Talmud, without providing
the Gemaraic portion. I therefore assume that when you read through
the entire Chapter you were reffering to the Mishnaic protions - which
the above qoute clearly would never originate from.
Subject: Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:40 PDT
 
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_37.html This link
contains only folio 37, in which you can see for yourself that no such
qoute exists. I will continue researching, however.
Subject: Re: Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
From: ashiled-ga on 29 May 2005 16:58 PDT
 
As I continue my research, I will continue to post dicoveries. I used
a book which contains all Agadaic statements, in alphabetical order. I
looked under the word "OY" (Woe), and I found many satements which
start with that word. None, however, were your qoute.
That book, however, is not exaustive. I will, therfore, continue my
research. It might take a while because my personal library, and my
university library, does not contian many works on the Talmud.

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