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Q: Evidence that the Israeli military used empty seltzer bottles as missles in '48 ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   2 Comments )
Question  
Subject: Evidence that the Israeli military used empty seltzer bottles as missles in '48
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: barryglobal-ga
List Price: $40.00
Posted: 02 Jun 2005 07:35 PDT
Expires: 02 Jul 2005 07:35 PDT
Question ID: 528522
I am trying to find evidence that the Israeli air force, in it first
war in 1948, when it was a declared a country, dropped empty seltzer
bottles in place of missles.

I have been told that they ran out of missles and used the siphon
bottles because they made a sound as they fell as if they were
missles. The idea was not to hurt them but to scare them. 

I have been told this by many many people, but can find no evidence of
it. I contacted the Israeli Air Force Museum. I was also told it was
in Exodus, the movie. I looked in the book and did not see it.  I also
watche the movie and did not see it.

I am not sure if it actually did occur, but even if it didn't
something happened to make a certain generation of American Jews think
it DID occur.

What was it?
Answer  
Subject: Re: Evidence that the Israeli military used empty seltzer bottles as missles in '48
Answered By: tutuzdad-ga on 02 Jun 2005 08:57 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear barryglobal-ga;

In the 1948 war Israel did employ a weapon called a ?Davidka mortar?.
In reality it was just a large pipe and made more noise than the size
of shell it fired deserved, but it seemed to have the required effect
nonetheless. Oh yes, it did launch an explosive round, but the
horrific blast suggested a much more terrifying weapon than its
projectile proved to be. The idea was that the enemy would be
frightened by a fake ?barrage? rather than be killed by a real one.

DAVIDKA MORTAR
http://www.davidpride.com/Israel/Givati_07.htm

The Davidka mortar is obviously not an airplane dropping a bottle, but
my point here is that Israel was defintely open to creating at least
one weapon that cause more fear that it did harm - much like the
bottle tactic you are talking about.

There is no definitive proof that the Israeli?s dropped bottles on the
enemy to simulate the whistle of falling bombs, but true or not the
legendary tactic has been discussed a bit for many years. Usually
among those who, like yourself, only heard the story but don?t know if
it really happened either.

PHILIPPINE DEFENSE FORUM (cached)
http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:3ueem7023h4J:timawa.net/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ft%3D383%26sid%3D7cf659a2517290aee76ad1f48e2958a9+israel+%22dropped+bottles%22&hl=en

Did something happen to make people think the tactic actually took
place? Yes indeed. As best I can tell, the legend of the falling
bottles can be traced to the source of many of life?s mysteries ?
Hollywood.

The story dates back to a movie entitled ?CAST A GIANT SHADOW? (1966)
starring Kirk Douglas, Yul Brynner, John Wayne, Frank Sinatra, and
directed by Melville Shavelson. In the movie Israel barely survives
thanks only to the sheer ingenuity of its handful of pilots. At one
point the meager three-Cessna air force is reduced to throwing large
seltzer bottles as bombs to make the enemy believe it still had some
ammunition.

JEWISH MOVIES
http://www.cinerhama.com/jewish/jm01.html

INTERNET MOVIE DATABASE
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0060218/

What we appear to have here is a case of art imitating life rather
than historical fact.


I hope you find that my research exceeds your expectations. If you
have any questions about my research please post a clarification
request prior to rating the answer. Otherwise I welcome your rating
and your final comments and I look forward to working with you again
in the near future. Thank you for bringing your question to us.

Best regards;
Tutuzdad-ga ? Google Answers Researcher



INFORMATION SOURCES

Defined above


SEARCH STRATEGY


SEARCH ENGINE USED:

Google ://www.google.com


SEARCH TERMS USED:

Israel

Bombs

Legends

Bottles

Air force

Cessna

Seltzer

Request for Answer Clarification by barryglobal-ga on 02 Jun 2005 10:44 PDT
Phenomenal response! 

There is still one thread left unexplored. The movie you mentioned is
based on the involvement of US Army Colonel David ?Mickey? Marcus in
the Israeli Air Force. Either the film made up that they dropped
bottles from their planes, which appears likely to be the case, or he
actually did drop the seltzer bottles, and the movie is based on fact.
Is there a source about Marcus that can clarify this, such as a
study-center with his papers or a scholar who has written about him
that I can contact. I need to be able to say without any doubt whether
it originated with the film or was based on Marcus' actions.

Barry 

Barry

Clarification of Answer by tutuzdad-ga on 02 Jun 2005 12:29 PDT
I?m afraid the question is going to boil down to whether or not the
original book upon which the movie CAST A GIANT SHADOW (by Ted
Berkman) was based mentions the ?bottle bombs?, and if so, if it
actually took place.

The book can be obtained here:

MANIFEST PUBLICATIONS
http://www.manifestpub.com/castshadow.htm

And if not, whether or not Melville Shavelson, director and
screenwriter, took certain literary license and added that scene into
the movie specifically for public consumption (even though it wasn?t
mentioned in the book as part of the ?real? Marcus story).

Ted Berkman?s publisher is MANIFEST PUBLICATIONS. Perhaps a message to
them will result on contact with Berkman himself and he could answer
the question once and for all. As with all great characters of
history, one must use caution however when researching heroes of
yesterday, for sometimes their heroic deeds tend to ?become? more
factual with the passage of time.

MANIFEST PUBLICATIONS
http://www.manifestpub.com/tberkman.htm

Unfortunately, director/writer Melville Shavelson is now 89 years old
and retired. We aren?t likely to hear much from him on the subject
nowadays even if there was a means to contact him. Like many of the
great Shavelson combat stories I imagine that the real story is
embellished somewhat for cinematic purposes.

As you probably know Colonel Marcus died at Abu Ghosh in the early
morning hours of June 11, 1948, a victim of both mistaken identity and
friendly fire (a sentry did not recognize him and shot him dead at a
checkpoint when he failed to stop).

I found no collection of personal papers, but you might try consulting
the United States Military Academy, at West Point for facts. For 39
years now they have held an annual ?Colonel David (Mickey) Marcus
Memorial Service? commemorating him and other American volunteers who
died in Israel's War of Independence. Apparently they hold Colonel
Marcus in very high regard and may have some insight into his military
activities that others do not have.

West Point Rites Honor Hero Commissioner/Col. 'Mickey' Marcus
http://www.correctionhistory.org/html/chronicl/nycdoc/html/colmick2.html

It may be important to note that during some of the time he was in
Israel, Marcus was listed variously as ?Michael Stone? and ?Brigadier
General Michael Stone?; an alias he adopted for security purposes
after playing an instrumental role in portions of the post-liberation
work at Nazi death camps and in planning legal and security procedures
for the Nuremberg trials.

The American Jewish Historical Society also seems to have a bit of
information about David Marcus. You may contact them here:

AMERICAN JEWISH HISTORICAL SOCIETY
http://www.ajhs.org/

Regards;
Tutuzdad-ga
barryglobal-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
Good lord, this person is amazing!!!

Comments  
Subject: Re: Evidence that the Israeli military used empty seltzer bottles as missles in '48
From: tutuzdad-ga on 03 Jun 2005 12:53 PDT
 
Thank you VERY much for your generosity. It is greatly appreciated.

tutuzdad-ga
Subject: Re: Evidence that the Israeli military used empty seltzer bottles as missles in
From: barryglobal-ga on 03 Jun 2005 14:05 PDT
 
And much deserved. I am now trying to track down Melville Shavelson to
find out the truth. :-) Btw, do you do this professionally? Where are
you working from? So curious to know where this remarkable help came
from...

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