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Q: How much $$$$ do lawyers make? ( No Answer,   13 Comments )
Question  
Subject: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
Category: Business and Money
Asked by: money78492-ga
List Price: $10.00
Posted: 13 Jul 2005 13:40 PDT
Expires: 12 Aug 2005 13:40 PDT
Question ID: 543198
Hey there, this one is random:  I need a list of the average mean
income of solo practitioner
attorneys and small law firms (under 3 partners) for each state in the
USA.  Most recent data.  Thanks!

Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 14 Jul 2005 15:01 PDT
Hello money78492-ga,

As all the commentors made clear, this is a tough question. I did some
preliminary research and here are a couple of sources that give you an
answer at the price you've set. What do you think? Will you accept
this as the answer?

I look forward to your clarification.

~ czh ~

http://www.payscale.com/salary-survey/vid-38228/fid-6886
Real-time Salary Survey Information for:
Job=Attorney, Solo Practitioner (United States)

Median Salary by Practice Area
For Job=Attorney, Solo Practitioner

Median Salary By State
For Job=Attorney, Solo Practitioner

Median Salary By Employer Type
For Job=Attorney, Solo Practitioner

(See tables)

http://www.cnybj.com/fullstory.cfm?article_id=1735
CNY solo attorneys among state?s lowest paid 
(See article and tables)

http://www.masslawyersweekly.com/feature.cfm?pageDate=20031020
How Far Does A Lawyer's Salary Go?

Finding a precise median salary for lawyers can be quite elusive, warn
some industry consultants. Unlike salaries in other professions, legal
salaries are drastically affected by everything from practice area to
number of years in practice to geography to compensation structure.

Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 14 Jul 2005 15:16 PDT
Hello again money78492-ga.

You said: "I have been interviewing/selling to solo practitioners
nationwide for 2  years. ... and I am prospecting by state."

It sounds like you're trying to improve your prospecting. Please tell
me what you're selling and how you've done your prospecting in the
past. I might be able to come up with alternate ways of identifying
the right target market without getting the salary information you
asked for in your original request. Thanks.

~ czh ~

Clarification of Question by money78492-ga on 15 Jul 2005 14:57 PDT
Yes, I know it's elusive, and I've seen all those links prior to
posting.  Doesn't sound like this one's going to get answered.

Request for Question Clarification by czh-ga on 15 Jul 2005 18:51 PDT
Hello again money78492-ga,

You're right in coming to the conclusion that the information you're
looking for in the format you've selected is simply not available.
Since no one has bothered to collect this information about this
easily identified market there must be reasons why it's not worth the
effort. Several of the articles I found and the couple I provided tell
you why it's too difficult to get good salary information about all
solo practititioners state by state. There are just too many
variables.

This doesn't mean that your information needs cannot be solved. My
second clarification request was trying to get at this. You indicated,
"I have been interviewing/selling to solo practitioners nationwide for
2  years. ... and I am prospecting by state."

I suggest that you close this question and post a new one to get
assistance with your prospecting efforts. The more you tell us about
what you're trying to do, the more likely someone will be able to get
you the information you need. Sometimes reframing the question is
necessary to be able to move beyond an apparent roadblock.

Good luck.

~ czh ~

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 18 Jul 2005 08:34 PDT
You might want to have a look at this resource:

http://www.acinet.org/acinet/occ_rep.asp?Op2=yes&Op3=yes&showintro=no&soccode=231011&stfips=11&search=Go


There are various links on this page for getting comparative
information in states, major cities, etc.  However, there isn't a
breakout that I know of for solo practicioners.

pafalafa-ga
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

Comments  
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: waukon-ga on 14 Jul 2005 01:35 PDT
 
A substantial number of American attorneys make very little money at
all practicing law, and many law-school graduates follow alternate
careers.

Contrary to what you might think, most lawyers don't make that much money.

But then, very smart thieves go to law school to learn how to legally steal.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: money78492-ga on 14 Jul 2005 09:32 PDT
 
I have been interviewing/selling to solo practitioners nationwide for
2  years.  I know they don't make much.  But some do, and I am
prospecting by state.

Thanks.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: tutuzdad-ga on 14 Jul 2005 09:54 PDT
 
How much a laywer makes depends on his reputation and how much time
and effort he puts into his work. Some of them, for example, like to
handle an occassional dog bite case just to keep up the appearances
that they are practicing law.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: money78492-ga on 14 Jul 2005 12:28 PDT
 
Okay.  You guy's aren't getting it.  I need the exact dollar amount,
preferably in a graph, of the exact income levels of all solo
practioners, averaged and categorized by state.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: tutuzdad-ga on 14 Jul 2005 12:36 PDT
 
We "GET IT" alright. But your question is simply not answerable
[probably for any amount of money]. There are too many variables to
consider.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: tutuzdad-ga on 14 Jul 2005 12:38 PDT
 
You may need to put up some sizeable cash and hire yourself a market
researcher. Those reports are typically quite expensive and well
beyond what most researchers here can do.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: research_help-ga on 14 Jul 2005 13:31 PDT
 
Tutuzdad - The customer is offering $10 for this information.  Are you
saying this is not enough for a major market research project?

Seriously, unless this information is already readily available by the
US census, for example, but I doubt that it is, you are probably
looking for research that typically costs $5,000-$10,000 from a
professional market researcher depending on the level of detail you
need.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: mongolia-ga on 15 Jul 2005 16:57 PDT
 
Dear Google Researchers

With respect to the last comment (from research_help-ga ) , I have
noticed that many market research questions in this forum go
unanswered.

 
If this information is held by Market Research companies who will only
sell their reports for many thousands of dollars , then it is easy to
understand why
customers come to this forum looking for this type of information.
 
Furthermore it is easy to understand why customers (such as
money78492-ga) are unsuccessful in obtaining this information from
Google Answers and go away dissapointed. The average Googler
researcher would  be very relucant to fork out thousands of dollars
for these reports when the absolute maximum money a researcher is
allowed to make a mere $350 per question.
 
May I therefore propose a solution. 
Google researchers should lobby the Google Organization very hard to
purchase these reports. (Although the amount of money for the average
researcher or customer to buy these reports is huge , for Google it is
absolute peanuts)
Google would then give Google researchers access to the reports to allow them
to answer questions such as the one proposed here. As the researcher
would only use the reports to answer the specific questions asked by
the questioner, there would be no issue of copyright. (The reseacher
would thus use the reports to answer the question but would in no way
quote directly from the reports)

In this way everyone wins
 - The customer wins as they get precise information from well researched 
   sources.
 - Google wins as both difficult questions and more questions are answered.
   (and the overall credibility of the service increases)
 - The Google researcher wins as they can now increase the number of 
   questions they answer and earn the respect of their customers. :-)

Have a nice day
Mongolia
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: research_help-ga on 18 Jul 2005 06:16 PDT
 
Mongolia -
As a person who has spent years dealing with market research firms,
there are a few points that I would like to point out to you regarding
your last comment.  1) There are way too many market research firms
and market research reports to collect all of them.  For each specific
industry, you may have dozens of firms producing hundreds or thousands
of reports each year.
2) Even if you did collect a number of reports, you would not be
allowed to take that information and sell it to others.  It is the
intellectual property of the research firm and cannot be sold to other
third parties.  When I buy a $5,000 report from a research firm, I
cannot even technically share it with any of my coworkers because they
would need to buy a license to have the report.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: mongolia-ga on 22 Jul 2005 18:26 PDT
 
research_help-ga

Just my opinion. 
Having read your comment well at least I can say I have now been
warned! So the next time I see that report about how much money
lawyers make in Gary, Indiana then I will try and keep this REALLY
important information to myself. On second thoughts should I wish to
reveal it after couple of glasses too many, I am thinking what crime
am I committing? And as I do not happen to reside in the US of A ,
could I be extradited there for this dastardly oversight?!.

However on a more serious note. There are some implications of your
comment which slightly disturb me.
You say:

>It is the intellectual property of the research firm and 
>cannot be sold to other third parties.  When I buy a
>$5,000 report from a research firm, I cannot even 
>technically share it with any of my coworkers because they
>would need to buy a license to have the report.

Are you really saying that information about the salaries of lawyers
is restricted to the Research firms that compile reports about this
information and a small bunch of overpaid executives who wish to keep
this type of information to themselves so they can have an unfair
knowledge of the marketplace?

Please do not get me wrong. THE MARKET RESEARCH FIRMS WHO
COMPILE THESE REPORTS DESERVE TO BE FAIRLY COMPENSATED FOR THEIR
EFFORT. Just like authors of Books, Songwriters and Moviemakers, they
deserve to be paid for their efforts and good and meaningful Copyright
laws should help to make this happen.
 
Where I disagree is that this information should be restricted to a
group of rich people who can buy it by paying an exorbitant amount of
money. The information should be AVAILABLE to anyone so long as they
are prepared to pay a REASONABLE fee. By a REASONABLE fee I am talking
about $50 to $300. Certainly not the thousands of dollars that these
market research firms currently charge. (I also hope the Freedom of
information act will help to extract some of this information from
Market Research firms).

This is why I think Google Answers may be an ideal forum for
disseminating this type of information. It may to be fair involve the
researcher paying a ?commission? to the Market Research Firm for
extracting some piece of relevant Statistics.

I am suggesting that these market Research Firms make their reports
available to a wider audience and while the fee per customer may be
less they should recuperate their costs on larger volumes. This
presumably is how compilers of Encyclopedias make their money.
 
As a general point, I find it amazing that perhaps a quarter of the
planet can see photographs from the Surface of Mars in incredible
detail, the latest photographs of the rings of Saturn in all their
glory, a photograph from the surface of Titan within hours of it been
taken and the result of a spacecraft problem colliding with a comet(as
well as close up photographs of the comet as the spacecraft approached
it) and YET something as mundane as the salaries of a bunch of lawyers
is impossible to obtain.

Seems to me we have lost our sense of priority.

Just my opinion.

Regards

Mongolia
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: myoarin-ga on 23 Jul 2005 06:42 PDT
 
Salve Mongolia-ga,

It is really a question of the free market place.  The market research
firms do their work for a pretty select group of customers.  On
lawyers' income, say, for just one organization, or even on the
speculation that they can sell it.  But the market for that
information is really quite small, so they have to charge what they
can to those who really need it.  I imagine that the contract when
they sell it defines the extent to which the information can be
revealed  - to persons in the buyer's organization with the proviso
that it can only be used within the organization and not passed to
persons outside, a confidentiality clause like that in employment
contracts.

Market research information that has a much broader potential market,
is sold for much less, just as you suggest, on the calculation that
the volume of sales will provide an adequate return.

Servus, Myoarin
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: research_help-ga on 25 Jul 2005 05:55 PDT
 
Mongolia,
I have an analogy for you which might show you the fault in your
logic: Mercedes Benz makes some very nice automobiles.  The luxury
models are only owned by wealthy people because they are expensive. 
However, this is not fair! As you say, this car should be available to
all people who want it. So, Mercedes Benz must lower their prices to
make this car available to all people.  And Google Answers should be
able to buy this car at an even lower price and then rent it cheaply
to its own customers.  Now just substitute market research reports for
the car and you have your own argument.
Subject: Re: How much $$$$ do lawyers make?
From: mongolia-ga on 25 Jul 2005 19:40 PDT
 
Dia Dhuit Myoarin!
Many thanks for your comment which has clarified my own thinking on this topic. 
To take an example: If I were a senior executive with a company I may 
wish to know some key marketing information. Because I have a vested
interest in as few people having access to this type of information,
then I may be prepared to pay a huge sum of money to a Market Research
firm to supply me with this information. Further I would also sign a
clause to keep ALL the information confidential which is contained in
the report with the exception of a very few other senior executives in
my company (who would sign the same clause).

Now lets say through my own negligence the janitor picked up a copy of
the report from my wastebasket and sent it to the local library who
printed copies for use by the general public, Then I would fully
expect to be sued for serious breach of contract.

HOWEVER (and this is where I may be in disagreement with 
research_help-ga) , neither the janitor or local library would have
done anything wrong. They have signed NO contract with the Market
research firm and as the information is not classified military
secrets and the information is in effect in the public domain both the
janitor and library are free to disseminate the information.

Go raibh mile a maith agat.

Mongolia

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