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Q: Due diligence question on North Dallas Vending Company Inc. ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   0 Comments )
Subject: Due diligence question on North Dallas Vending Company Inc.
Category: Business and Money > Small Businesses
Asked by: dallc-ga
List Price: $150.00
Posted: 27 Oct 2005 22:53 PDT
Expires: 26 Nov 2005 21:53 PST
Question ID: 585929
I would like some help with my due diligence on a vending route
opportunity offered by "North Dallas Vending Co Inc."  Specifically
I'm looking for information regarding their selling of vending routes
(lawsuits, complaints, etc), but any information (tax problems,
judgments...) might help me discern opportunity versus "scam".  They
offer a 12 month income history on each route, and they guarantee
performance will be at least 90% of that amount, or they will provide
the buyer with additional machines to compensate.  Asking price is
about 20% above the guaranteed annual net and they have put their
promises in writing.  What I really need to know at this point is
whether they (or the owner) have a history of scamming people or not. 
I do know (through Sec or State online) that the owner and registered
agent is John Seidel (who met with me), and that he incorporated
December 30, 1985. The SOS site also lists the company tax ID as
17520751870.  Don't really know what I'm looking for - I just know
vending is full of con artists, and I don't want to get ripped off.
Subject: Re: Due diligence question on North Dallas Vending Company Inc.
Answered By: pafalafa-ga on 30 Oct 2005 17:33 PST
Rated:5 out of 5 stars

I've done a fair number of due diligence type searches in the past,
and I've provided some links below to a few of my earlier answers,
just to let you know the sort of information that usually pops up for
a company.

My reason for doing this is to create a sense of contrast.  There is
virtually no information available on North Dallas Vending.  In fact,
they have such a small footprint in public records, that I would
definitely proceed with caution in any dealings with them.  A
well-established company shows up in many places -- even if it's in
the complaint files of different organizations.

Neither North Dallas Vending nor its officers show up anywhere, though
-- not on the internet, not in the files of the Better Business
Bureau, in lawsuits, in newspapers -- just about nowhere.

On the one hand, I suppose this is good complaints, no lawsuits.

On the other hand, it's so unusual for any established, long-standing
business to be virtually invisible to a due diligence search that I
can only repeat my earlier caution....proceed with caution, if in
fact, you decide to proceed at all.

Here are some links to earlier work I've done on due diligence
questions, just to give you a feel for them:

As you'll see below, there is far less information available on North
Dallas Vending, outside of routine (and conflicting) listings in
business databases.

Let me start with a summary.

North Dallas Vending is a registered corporation in the state of
Texas.  It is a small business, with annual sales under $1 million,
and a small staff of probably fewer than ten employees.  It has a good
credit record.  It's chief executive is John Seidel, and Allen Seidel
is listed as a company executive in at least one record.

Although public records for North Dallas Vending extend back to the
1980's, the firm seems to have first been listed in the Yellow Pages
only in the past few years.  There are a fair number of different
addresses and phone numbers given for North Dallas Vending, which lend
some confusion as the actual location of the company.  There is also a
tradestyle name (a doing-business-as name) listed by Dun and
Bradstreet as Monssen Unlimited LLC, also in the Dallas area. 
However, the link between these two companies does not appear in Texas
public records.  There are also discrepancies in listings of company
executives.  All told, enough unexplained or conflicting information
to call for a deeper background investigation.

A thorough check of legal proceedings in the state of Texas as well as
in federal courts did not reveal any legal actions against North
Dallas Vending or against either of the Seidel's listed as executives.
 Similarly, there were no mentions of the company or the Seidel's in
local or national newspaper articles, or in the files of the Better
Business Bureau.  Nothing showed up on internet searches either, other
than routine directory listings.

Here's a bit more detail on what I found.

First stop was on online search tool at Dun and Bradstreet, where a
search on North Dallas Vending turns up four listings:

NORTH DALLAS VENDING CO, INC 2030 Century Center Blvd Ste 3, Irving,  TX   
NORTH DALLAS VENDING 7012 Ebony Ct, Plano,  TX   
NORTH DALLAS VENDING COMPANY 2351 Merrell Rd, Dallas,  TX   
Also Trades As: NORTH DALLAS VENDING 315 Monssen Dr, Dallas,  TX 

I saw nothing in my other searches to explain the multiple address for
North Dallas Vending.  Possibly, they are outdated addresses used at
one time, but no longer valid.

As for the listing for Monssen Unlimited, this turned out to be
mysterious.  There is, in fact, a company by that name registered with
the state of Texas, but I found no connection between it and North
Dallas Vending.

A business search site called Accoona provides free access to a bit
more of the Dun and Bradstreet information:


  Contact Information:

  Company Address:
  IRVING TX 75062-4959 USA

  Business Information:
  Sales Volume: $500,000 - $999,000
  Company Size: 10 - 14


Note that they put the company size as from 10-14 employees, though
other sources routinely listed the size as in the under-10 employee

From the Accoona results, you can click on a button taking you
directly to various Dun and Bradstreet reports for sale, each of which
provides additional details about North Dallas Vending:

Comprehensive Report
A complete predictive and historical analysis    $129.50      

Supplier Evaluation Report (SER)
Assess the risk of doing business with suppliers    $114.00       

Business Information Report (BIR) 
Verify operations, profitability & stability    $110.00

Credit Scoring Report (CSR)
Predicts future likelihood to make payments    $59.00     

Business Background Report (BBR)
Details on a company & its management    $39.00       

U.S. Company Profile
Verify identity, contact names & basic facts   

You may want to consider purchasing one or more of these reports...for
each report, you can click on the button labelled "Sample" to see what
the report looks like in greater detail.

Another business background database similar to Dun and Bradstreet is
called Reference USA, and is available in many public libraries.  A
search of their records shows some additional information:

Employees: 5 to 9   
Est Sales:  $500,000 to $1 MILLION  
City:  PLANO,  TX  75024-0000    
Credit Rating Code*:  GOOD  
Phone:  (972) 596-8368  
SIC Lines of Business 
Year Appeared in Yellow Pages -- 2003   
NAICS Lines of Business  

Note several things.  No address is given for the company, which is
odd.  The credit rating is Good, however, which is always a good sign.
 The company first shows up in the Yellow Pages (according to RefUSA)
in 2003.

Still another business information database is LexisNexis, which turns
up these listings:



  2. NORTH DALLAS VENDING CO., INC., T09746244, 9/5/2005, EXPERIAN


  4. US Business Directory, NORTH DALLAS VENDING CO, PLANO,, TX,
75024, UNITED STATES, TEL: 972-596-8368 , ABI-NO: 208042911

  5. Inactive Business Database, NORTH DALLAS VENDING CO, 2030 CENTURY
CENTER BLVD # 3, IRVING,, TX  , TEL: 972-438-1820, ABI-NO: 457604692,


I did not check all the reports in detail, as there is a charge for
accessing the information.  But I did take a look at the first report,
which shows the following:


DENTON, TX 76210
Telephone: 940-271-0081


Annual Sales: $ 352,000
Years in Business: 1 
Employees: 1 - 5


This listing is so different from the information provided thus far,
that it quite possibly is another company all together.  But how a
Texas company could have the same name and be in the same business is
something that simply does not make sense.  Note that this company has
only been in business for one year.

At the same time, the LexisNexis search shows an "inactive" listing
for a North Dallas Vending in Irving, TX.  A more detailed listing for
this listing connects to the name Allen Seidel:

North Dallas Vending Co, Inc
2030 Century Ctr Ste 3  
Irving, TX   75062-4959  
TELEPHONE: 972-596-8368
INCORPORATION: December 30, 1985 - Texas

Vending Machine Operator
SIC: 5962 Merchandising machine operators, nsk 
59620100 Food vending machines 
59620200 Beverage vending machines 

PRESIDENT: John Seidel, Pres 
SECRETARY: Allen Seidel, SEC-Treas  

There are simply too many variations on the name, address, management,
and phone numbers to be certain about what the current status of this
business actually is.  You would do well to ask Mr. Seidel point blank
whether he can shed any light on these various listings.

In addition to the above sources, I also checked with the Secretary of
State in Texas as to the various corporate registrations for the
company names in question.  However, these did not reveal any
information beyond that already presented.

I also checked newspaper records, including The Dallas Morning News,
and the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, but there was no mention of North
Dallas Vending, nor of the Seidels.  Similarly for Better Business
Bureau complaint records -- nothing on the company in question.

Lastly, I looked through lawsuits and legal proceedings.  Again,
nothing on the company turned up.  There were various mentions of a
John Seidel, but this is not an unusual name, so there is no certainty
that any of the cases were dealing with the same person.  I'll mention
just this one, from several decades ago, which provides a middle name
that can allow for fairly positive identifcation:

No. 05-83-00027-CR
COURT OF APPEALS OF TEXAS, Fifth District, Dallas
654 S.W.2d 39; 1983 Tex. App. LEXIS 4561

June 9, 1983

John Sheldon Seidel was sentenced to three years imprisonment,
probated, fined $500, and ordered to pay restitution of $1,250 upon
his conviction for theft of property of a value of at least $200 but
less than $10,000. Among four grounds of error presented to us for
review, appellant contends that the evidence was insufficient to prove
that the value of the property stolen was at least $200.00. We agree,
and accordingly we reverse and order appellant acquitted...

I wish I could provide some more definitive information, but this has
turned out to be a very elusive company to search.  As I said before,
please proceed with caution.

If there is anything else I can do for you on this, just let me know
by posting a Request for Clarification, and I'm at your service.

All the best,


Request for Answer Clarification by dallc-ga on 30 Oct 2005 21:20 PST
Thanks for your work on this.  Do you really think the Dun and
Bradstreet report is worth getting (for $139)?  How would they have
more information than what you were able to find?  Any other ideas on
how to find out if this company does business honestly or not?  Thanks

Clarification of Answer by pafalafa-ga on 31 Oct 2005 07:03 PST

When there's very little information available on a company, it can be
quite tricky to figure out one's next steps.  My suggestion would be:

--Give Dun and Bradstreet's customer service a call at 800-234-3867. 
I have had some good experiences with them in the past prior to
actually purchasing their reports.  The Customer Service rep should be
able to pull up a report you are considering buying, and give you a
better idea of its information content.  I'd be surprised if they have
a lot more to offer than what I've already provided to you, but you
never know until you ask.

--Get back to John Seidel and ask him for an explanation of all the
discrepancies in public records -- various addresses, management
personnel, phone numbers, inactive listings, doing-business-as names,
and so on.

--Ask him, as well, to verify the size and scope of his operations --
how many employees, annual sales, number of clients, and so on.  If
these seem inconsistent with the data already provided, that would be
yet another warning flag, I would think.

--Also go the time-honored route of asking for recent references --
the most recent three clients of North Dallas Vending who have signed
on to the same deal you have under consideration.  Also get the name
of a not-so-recent reference, so you can speak to someone with a bit
of longer-term perspective.

Contact each and every one of the references, and make sure you feel
comfortable with the amount and quality of the information they are
providing you.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what additional advice I might offer other
than to go into anything with eyes wide open.  I've seen nothing that
screams "scam" about North Dallas Vending, but at the same time, it is
quite strange for there to be so little information about the company.
 There are many questions about them that call out for answers before
entering into any deals.

Best of luck.  Let me know if there's anything more I can do for you.

dallc-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars
Great work - appreciate the help, and the follow up!

There are no comments at this time.

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