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Subject:
Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
Category: Miscellaneous Asked by: monzoca-ga List Price: $2.50 |
Posted:
30 Dec 2005 10:03 PST
Expires: 04 Jan 2006 14:02 PST Question ID: 611339 |
Where did the expression "out of the ashes" originate? Is it biblical? |
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There is no answer at this time. |
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Subject:
Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: ansel001-ga on 31 Dec 2005 00:56 PST |
This sounds like it comes from the myth of the phoenix bird that, at the end of its life, makes a fire and is consumed by it, and from its ashes springs up a new phoenix. This may symbolize death and resurrection. |
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Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: myoarin-ga on 31 Dec 2005 06:40 PST |
Anse is correct. http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/phoenix.htm You may have found the expression in relation to the World Trade Center, but it is also used on sites referring to Hiroshima, New Orleans and other disasters, and also Christian resurection (and that of Eastern religions). |
Subject:
Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: canadianhelper-ga on 31 Dec 2005 08:55 PST |
Biblical references to "ashes" can be found here: http://www.biblegateway.com/quicksearch/?quicksearch=ashes&qs_version=31 The exact term: "out of the ashes" is not from the bible. Yet the concept of rising from decimation can certainly apply. |
Subject:
Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: frde-ga on 01 Jan 2006 06:33 PST |
@canadianhelper-ga Ahem, 'rising from decimation' ? One has a 90% chance Decimation was what they did to Roman Legions (or Centuries) when they performed particularly badly. Typically they were lined up on a cliff edge and every 10th soldier was given a push. Given that there would be a bit of jostling while lining up, and that the 'pusher' could have problems counting, also that eighteen guys on either side of a 'decimee' would enthusiastically support the decision, it was a pretty safe way of getting rid of dross. Decimation should be replaced by 'tithing' or 'gentle pruning' - interestingly, if manipulated as I suspect it was, it would be something of a morale booster - surviving a 'cull' is actually a compliment. |
Subject:
Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: canadianhelper-ga on 01 Jan 2006 07:33 PST |
frde- I didn't think that this question was about my choice of words but instead about the term 'out of the ashes'. I think the generally accepted concept behind 'decimation'in TODAYS use is total loss (yes I understand the 1/10 definition and you will still find it in the dictionary...I am talking about day to day usage). English is a language where meanings and usage evolve over time. I can refer you to Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=decimation where you can see that the meaning has evolved or to M-W http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=decimation |
Subject:
Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: myoarin-ga on 01 Jan 2006 13:30 PST |
With respect for Canadianhelper's comments here and elsewhere, I also stumbled over the word "decimation". Fred and I must have had to read Julius Ceasar back when ... I agree with Fred in preferring the original meaning of the word. I cringe when I read about something other than metal or glass container being described as hermetically sealed. But I hope we are agreed about "rising from the ashes" (which has nothing to do with English/Aussie test cricket). Happy New Year to all, Myoarin |
Subject:
Re: Out of the ashes - where did this expression come from? Is it biblical?
From: frde-ga on 03 Jan 2006 00:19 PST |
I no longer subscribe to the view that a word or phrase means what most people currently think that it means. Once I did, but then I realized that it is just a social discriminator, a neat way of identifying poorly educated people, rather like bad grammar and lousy spelling. Since I believe in bringing people up to a standard, rather than sniggering at them, I reckon that it is wise to broadcast precise meanings. One tends to get a reputation as a pedantic didact, but after a bit people cotton on and appreciate it. |
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