Hi
 i was escorted from my company
 on december 15 2005
 and i am feeling bad about it from day one

i was the best software developer out there
but my manager was very jealous of me 
but i never knew that he was backstabbing me saying minute things
about me to the CEO
as so metime i used to go home from work at 4.30 pm instead of 5.00 pm
where there was no work
this happened may be only 2 or 3 times

the reason for my escorting was less attendance, and i was searching
for a job elsewhere that what they came to know when the other company
called this company aboout my references

can i sue the company ...

also one thing there was discrimination in the comany that i could
feel from day to day work...

the company is a private company not a public one woith more than 500 workers

but couldnt proved that they fired one more local person that day
from the company

i am from ohio state

if you need more detail information i am reasy to give  but i want to
sue the com pany


Thanks,

---

Request for Question Clarification by pafalafa-ga on 11 Sep 2006 20:12 PDT

raul123-ga,

You asked if you can sue the company. In general, the answer is almost
always Yes, you can sue.  There are very few restrictions on who can
sue whom in the US.

I think what you are really asking is:  If I go through the time and
effort and enormous hassle of suing the company, will I be satisfied
with the outcome?

This is a question that probably no one can answer in a satisfactory
fashion...no one knows the outcome of a lawsuit in advance.

Please clarify for us what it is you would like from a researcher, and
perhaps we can help you.

All the best,

pafalafa-ga

---

Clarification of Question by raul123-ga on 12 Sep 2006 10:39 PDT

Hi,
sorry my language is not that bad i worte yesterday without 
putting it through spell check in microsoft word

what i meant to say what are my chances if i sue the company

I was a programmer analyst with the company.
the company has only 6 programmers that to they all were cobal developers
so i was the only person who had the knowledge of ERP

i developed the system from scratch..
with all the reports.. for the company my performance was very good 
i was the only person there who was working in production instance
i saved the company from many critical problems

i was with the company for 2 years
when our project went live with this new ERP system i was given a gift
check of $250 for my excellent work

but i think my manager was very jealous of me 
i think i was discriminated on the basis of nationality
he didnt like me at all 

manager was just looking for a chance to fire me..
so he used to disrespect me every time whenever he got a chance

two or three times i went home at 4.30 pm when the office hours were
8.00 am till 5.00 pm
whats a big deal..
he made a issue out of it and may be he reported this to the director
of the company

I was not happy with my manager as he was making my life hell
he used to give all the work to me 
and other developers just used to sit idle in the office without doing any work

they were tracking whether i was looking for a job else where
once i applied for a position through one of the internet sites
and i was selected in the interview but for employment verification
that company called this company where i was working then

thats it

the next day i was called in the room where there was my manager and HR person

they gave me a letter 
saying your employment is being terminated

the letter contained three reasons

1) lack of attendance
2) decline in performance (when my performance was the best ) 
3) looking for job else where

manager told me your knowledge is over effective immediately you have
to leave the company
they didnt even allow me to collect my personel belongings
the HR person told get out which was very bad

and i was escorted out of the company

they mailed all my belongings and thats it for last 8 months i have
been through emotional trauma ...

i was not allowed to take my code nothing
nobody contacted me after that 

i mean what is this what is the meaning of permanent position when 
a company can escort you when their job is done

i came to know that they hired a guy for the position and made him manager
and he is not even as good as me ... as i had worked with him before 
when i was a consultant  


Thanks

---

Clarification of Question by raul123-ga on 11 Oct 2006 08:26 PDT

For the questions you have asked 

- What WERE you doing for the last eight months?
In 10 days after I was escorted I got a job with a big corporation 
With more pay but it is a consulting position
And not a permanent one like hire and fire kind of once you are on
bench for more then 2.5 months

- Regarding your poor performance: Did your management team indicate
To you (verbally or in writing) that your performance was poor before
Your dismissal?

No infact my performance was very good there
As other people working there didn?t have any exposure to the new ERP system
I did all the work there starting from scratch,My pay was very less there 
No one really said that my performance was bad and I was the only
person out there who was working in production instance there...

May be I thing I they have seen some attitude in me that as I was
knowing the system in and out and everyone used to come to me if they
had any problems

-  Can I assume you got no severance?
--No I didn?t get any severance, I just got 15 days of pay Means in
was escorted on
15-dec-2006 And the final paycheck I got was for 31-dec-2006 I think
that 15 days is not any severance it is my pay As company always hold
pay for last 15 days

-  Did you ever think of going for a consultation with a good Employment? 
   Lawyer (May cost you more than $10 dollars but will be much better advice 
   Than anything you hear on this forum)

-- I thought of going to the lawyer but I am not for this country I am
a permanent resident here so kind of I don?t know any laws of this
country When the company escorted me
They told me to go to the lawyer, so I thought they might know That
they have better chance of winning And of course the cost of all the
case.


-  And finally you say more than once how much better you are 
   Than other people. IS it possible perhaps you were pissing your colleagues? 
   Off by telling them you were better than them?             

I think so the collegues might have got pissed off
But inspite of having 6 developers i was only person who was working there
It is like this if you work more people hate you
And if you dont works then also people hate you
So   what sould i have done i was getting very less paid
And other collegues were getting highly paid doing nothing
They were going to Las Vegas on company money for training

And my manager was sending me nowhere

You mention discrimination. Do feel that you were discriminated
against on the basis of your race, gender or age? A lawsuit will need
to present specific, verifiable evidence. The term "discrimination"
does not mean "my manager didn't like me." If you genuinely believe
that you are a victim of discrimination, I suggest that you consult an
attorney.

"Ohio is an employment-at-will state, which means that, in the absence
of a written employment agreement or a collective bargaining
agreement, an employment agreement is terminable at will by either the
employer or the employee for any reason that is not contrary to law."

http://www.lsc.state.oh.us/membersonly/employment.pdf

I don't suppose your poor command of the English language had anything
to do with your dismissal?

I think you would be better off to cut your losses, move forward, and
build a future with another company.

You might lose if you sue, but if they are a small company, as they
sound like they are, your lawsuit will be a hinderance to them.  If
you gain utility from revenge, go for it.  You have a case for slander
if they lied about you when giving a referance. For a successful suit
based on your firing, you will have to go the discrimination route.

Typically, employment is characterized as being "at will." That is, in
the absence of a contract to the contrary, both you and the employer
are free to terminate the relationship with no reason and with no
notice.

On the other hand, if you both believe and can document some degree of
discrimination, and are willing to go through the time and expense of
a lawsuit, then you really need to contact a local attorney.

If you have been brooding about this for eight months, I suggest that
it's probably in the best interest of your mental health for you not
to pursue a lawsuit. I know it is difficult to set a grievance aside,
but when you nurse a grudge, it can suck all the life and joy out of
you.

Discrimination suits are lengthy, grueling affairs, and they are
difficult to win even when there is clear-cut evidence. You will be
better off if you put this behind you and set your mind on finding an
employer who appreciates your abilities.

If your work day ends at 5:00, you can't just decide to leave at 4:30.
 That was clearly a huge mistake on your part.

It was not "your" code.  Any code you created while in the comapny's
employ belongs to the comapny.

- Regarding the code: What Nelson has said. Employees are usually not
the "owners" or authors or the codes they develop. You'd need a
special contract (which you apparently haven't had) in order to be
allowed to take anything with you.

- Regarding attendance and looking for another job: In both cases, you
admit of these charges being correct. It is the "norm" in such firms
to stay overtime, partly as a way to show your dedication. Leaving
earlier, and without permission at that, is a big no-no in so many
levels; same goes for looking for another job: if you do it, you have
to keep it your own business. Do it from home. After hours (that is,
after 5:30, yes - 5:30 and not 5:00. As I said, the norm in such
companies is to leave later than prescribed).

I honestly don't understand you. It is not like I haven't worked for
my share of losers and a**holes in my life: why attract negative
attention from a boss who doesn't like you? Why not leave *after* he
does? Why not look for jobs at home? Why give them excuses?

- And here it gets to the discrimination part: Because of your poor
performance (which you have admitted), it would be difficult, if
anything, to prove that the grounds for your determination was
discrimination. The had enough reasons to determine your contract as
it is and in order to prove discrimination, you'd have to have any
shred of evidence that:

(a) the guy was really out to get you because of your nationality. Are
there any witnesses that he made insulting remakrs about your nation,
or you, or something? Did he ever tell you anything that would suggest
that he hates you because of your nationality and not, for example,
because you have a laid back attitude, get off early without asking
for permission, using the company's internet not in order to work; or
even just because you simply annoy him?

(b) other employees in the company who have done exactly the same
(leaving early without permission; looking for another job during
office hours, using the company's Internet) have not been laid off
because their nationality is different than yours.

I don't think you have any, so it's time to grow up and learn the
lesson. A workplace is not a place where you have the choice, unless
told so, when to leave; it is not a place where you can surf *at all*
for purposes unrelated to the job (many people do that, it doesn't
make it right, and it can be grounds for dismissal).

I know it is some time since this question was posted. However having
read the comments I am just wandering if they are all entirely fair.
There appears to be some "reading between the lines"

It may well indeed be the questioner had one awful attitude at his/her
place of employment (insisting that they were "better" than anyone
else)
So just to further confuse the issue, here are some more comments:

- Regarding "owning the code" yes of course what Nelson and
Politicalguru says is correct. It is a given that any code written by
a developer is the property of the company. However having read
RAUL123's question he/she may have simply meant they could not even
get samples of code he/she had written. (something which is critical
in for a developer when looking for a new job)

- Since when did looking for a new job become a "sackable offence" ?
The questioner has never said that they were looking for a job on
company time. What he/she did indicate was that one of the potential
employers at which he/she interviewed CALLED the employer for a
reference BEFORE a firm job offer had been. This is both totally
inappropiate and unethical behavour.

- Regarding the questioner's command of English , the company would
have been fully aware of his/her command of the English language at
the time he/she interviewed for the job. Unless their knowledge of
English got worse , I cannot see why this would have been an issue.
BTW where I work most of the computer staff's first language is NOT
English. However been a relatively progressive employer, they do offer
English Improvement to those feel they need it.

- The questioner has not indicated anywhere that his /her performance was poor.
On the contrary he/she has indicated that he/she got a small bonus for
the work they done (which indicates superior performance)

- It is of course tempting to tell the questioner to "move on".
However in the last few years "moving on" for IT staff has often been
a futile exercise in attempting to seek suitable employment especially
when one's skill sets are considered legacy.

RAUL123 ( some questions if you happen to sign in again to Google Answers)

- What WERE you doing for the last eight months?
- Regarding your poor performance: Did your management team indicate
to you (verbally or in writing) that your performance was poor before
your dismissal?
-  Can I assume you got no severance?
-  Did you ever think of going for a consultation with a good Employment 
   lawyer (May cost you more than $10 dollars but will be much better advice 
   than anything you hear on this forum)
-  And Finally you say more than once how much better you are 
   than other people. IS it possible perhaps you were pissing your colleagues 
   off by telling them you were better than them?.                
   
   My own personal opinion 

   If you are currently in a similiar position OR you have not
seriously looked for a new job I would forget about sueing.

   If you are finding it difficult to find suitable employment,
explore you possibilities (for sueing) by talking to  a reputable
lawyer.

    Regards

    Mongolia

If you believe you have a case, your best bet is to schedule a
consultation with an attorney, give him/her the facts, and then abide
by the advice you are given. The attorney will almost certainly tell
you upfront whether or not your case is worth pursuing. You can find
an attorney and schedule a very inexpensive (usually $15-25) initial
consultation by using the "Find a Lawyer" service of the Ohio State
Bar Association, here: http://www.ohiobar.org/pub/?articleid=72

Best of luck,
Byrd-ga

I feel that everyone's laid into this guy a bit - it's scant
reassurance but if the situation you described happened here in the UK
you'd have been unfairly dismissed, and able to claim compensation.
What must be most annoying is the lack of any formal warnings about
your attendance and performance.

raul123 

Many thanks for your last entry which has clarified your situation. 

Regarding your comment about not been from the United States but been
a Permanent Resident. You are always subject to the laws of the
country in which you are living (or for that matter even visiting). As
you are a permanent resident of the USA your are subject to the same
laws as citizens of the United States. You also have the same rights
as citizens of the United States (with some exceptions). With respect
to employment law you almost certainly have the same rights as a US
citizen.

Been escorted from your place of work is a humiliating experience.
Unfortunately this is the way things are done in the US especially in
private sector and this will happen if you are dismissed for cause or
made redundent. Many people have to endure this ritual one or more
times in their lives.

I would strongly advise you to take the advice of BYRD-GA. Even if the
lawyer advises you not to do anything regarding your prior employer,
their advice will be of great value to you for future reference.

Finally I would like to clarify some things about this service. I am
not a Google researcher and therefore I cannot answer your question.
The people who have entries in BLUE are researchers (pafalafa,
pinkfreud, politicalguru, byrd and jumpingjoe). the people in BLACK
are non-researchers. None of the researchers has decided to formally
answer your question.


Jumpingjoe

The industrial tribunal to which you may refer may work in some
situations but not in others. I understand you must be employed for at
least a year with an employer before you can use the industrial
tribunal (and it used to be two years)
There also seems to be a stigma in the UK about been both fired and
(even worse) seeking legal advice or going to an Industrial Tribunal. 
Potential employers will somtimes blacklist job candidates who are
sueing or have sued their prior employers and been fired is always
looked upon as been a negative factor.
In North America the system for all its faults works better. Most
people who are dismissed or laid off can move to what is sometimes a
better job. Sometimes too the good old fashioned litigous route is the
best one where someone who has a real case can sue and win while those
who deserved to be fired can sue and lose.

To all GARs
I believe this was a very good question. I  was disappointed that no
one choose to give an official answer. Although many of the comments
were relevent to the question, they may have confused the questioner.


Sincerely
Mongolia

I suspect that one reason this question has not received an official
answer is that it appears to be asking not only "Can I sue the
company?" (which has already been addressed by pafalafa), but also "Do
I have a strong enough case to win such a suit?"

Google Answers Researchers often steer clear of questions which seek
legal advice, and that appears to be the case here. Other than
suggesting that the customer consult an attorney, I can't see how we
can be of assistance. The only thing I can see that we might be able
to do for the customer is to clarify the grounds upon which
discrimination suits are based, and discussing his state's laws on the
termination of employees. Frankly, I think that either of those issues
would be likely to take more time than most of us are willing to
invest in a question that will provide only $7.50 in compensation,
with a high likelihood of failing to satisfy the customer.