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Q: How to make a Tibetan Buddhist robe ( No Answer,   1 Comment )
Question  
Subject: How to make a Tibetan Buddhist robe
Category: Miscellaneous
Asked by: boblag-ga
List Price: $5.00
Posted: 31 Oct 2002 13:15 PST
Expires: 06 Nov 2002 18:17 PST
Question ID: 94586
How do you wrap a Tibetan Buddhist robe (red and yellow, like the
Dalai Lama wears) to fit the body? Please also let me know the size of
the individual pieces of cloth.
Answer  
There is no answer at this time.

The following answer was rejected by the asker (they received a refund for the question).
Subject: Re: How to make a Tibetan Buddhist robe
Answered By: websearcher-ga on 31 Oct 2002 13:36 PST
 
Hello boblag:

Thanks for the fascinating question!

I was able to find the following excellent resources on the making and
wearing of Buddhist robes:

The Buddhist Monastic Robe 
**************************

URL: http://mail.metta.lk/mirror/www.buddhanet.net/robe_pics.htm

Pictures: http://mail.metta.lk/mirror/www.buddhanet.net/robes_picstibet.htm

Excerpts: 

#####################
The monk's robe goes back to the Buddha's own time for He was the One
who introduced it to the early monks. The "triple robe" (tricivara)
comprises the inner garment or waistcloth (antaravasaka), the upper
robe (uttarsanga) and the outer robe (sanghati) (Vin 1:94 289).

...

The waistcloth is about the size of a sarong, both the other robes
measure about 2m by 7m (about 6 feet by 9 feet). The Vibhanga says
that "A monk should wear the waistcloth even all around, covering the
area of the navel and the area of the knees." It is sercured to the
waist with a flat waistband.

The third robe, the outer robe (sanghati), is not often mentioned in
the Scriptures but was permitted by the Buddha for additional use
during the cold season. These robes measure about 2m by 3m (about 6
feet by 9 feet). Unlike the upper robe which is only of one layer, the
outer robe has two. This is the real meaning of the term, "the triple
robe".

...

There are a number of ways the monks wear their robes (depending
usually on their sect and country). The most universal one is that
which is worn for the alms-round when the robe is covering both the
shoulders. The two top corners are held together and the edges rolled
tightly together. The roll is then pushed over the left shoulder, down
the back, under the armpit and is pressed down with the left arm. The
roll is parted in front through which protrudes the right arm.

Within the monastery or residence and when having an audience with a
more senior monk, a simpler style is adoped (as a gesture of respect
and to facilliate work). The right side of the robe is pushed under
the armpit and over the robe on the left leaving the right shoulder
bare.
#####################


Protocol for Sangha in the Tibetan Tradition
********************************************

URL: http://www.sakyadhita.org/ordination/protocol.html

Excerpts:

#####################
In the Tibetan tradition, the robes for nuns and monks include a
maroon lower robe called shamdab, a maroon shawl called zen, a maroon
vest called donka, and a yellow robe called chogu which is worn on
special occasions. A underskirt called meyog and an shirt called
ngullen are worn underneath these. Yellow, orange, red, or maroon are
the most common colors for the meyog and ngullen. A yellow best called
kerag cinches the shamdab around the waist. It is generally a plain
strip of cloth, but there are variations. Monks and nuns who are fully
ordained wear a shamdab with five strip of patches sewn in a
particular pattern and have a second yellow robe with 25 strips of
patches called namcha which is worn on special occasions. Underwear is
advised, including a sports top or similar undergarment for nuns.
Special care is taken when sitting and crossing the legs to avoid any
embarassing display.

If a sweater is worn in an informal situation, it should be simple,
without decoration, and of a solid, acceptable color, such as yellow
or maroon. Shoes are worn outside the monastery and are generally
removed when entering temples. Sandals may be worn inside the
monastery.
#####################


I hope this information helps you out. 

If you need any clarification of the information I have provided,
please ask using the Clarification feature and provide me with
additional details as to what you are looking for. As well, please
allow me to provide you with clarification(s) *before* you rate this
answer.
       
Thank you.        
       
websearcher-ga       
       
     
Search Strategy:      
  
tibetan "monk robe" cloth 
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=tibetan+%22monk+robe%22+cloth+

tibetan "monastic robe" cloth
://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&safe=off&q=tibetan+%22monastic+robe%22+cloth

Request for Answer Clarification by boblag-ga on 31 Oct 2002 13:45 PST
Hi,
Well, you found the best thing that I had already found.
Unfortunately, this information does not answer the question in a
specific enough way. It doesn't really tell me exactly how it's done.

Clarification of Answer by websearcher-ga on 31 Oct 2002 14:17 PST
Hi boblag:

Hmmmmmm. If I had known that you already had found that information, I
certainly wouldn't have presented it as an answer.

I did some more searching and found further detailed instructions on
making Buddhist robes:

The Buddhist Monastic Code - Volume II - Cloth Requisites
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/thanissaro/bmc2/ch02.html

Had you also found this file? 

If this is still not enough information for your needs, please tell me
*exactly* what you have already found and what specifically you feel
you are missing in order to make these robes.

Thanks. 

websearcher-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by boblag-ga on 05 Nov 2002 01:51 PST
I want to know exactly what I asked for. The instructions you sent me
are clearly not specific enough to carry out the task. The new
information you provided was not necessary: I don't want to know how
to make the robes from scratch; I want to know the size of the pieces
of cloth and how to wrap them.
The fact that I had already seen that site is not relevant as it
doesn't adequately answer the question. If I had found a site that
answered the question I wouldn't be asking you, so to provide you with
a list of other sites that didn't answer the question is illogical. I
simply want the question answered or I would like you to tell me that
you can't answer it.

Clarification of Answer by websearcher-ga on 05 Nov 2002 08:01 PST
Hi boblag:

I am sorry that what I've found hasn't matched what you need. I will
try again.

You write:

"I want to know the size of the pieces of cloth and how to wrap them"

I did a lot more searching for this information and was able to find
some more definitive answers in:

The Bhikkhus' Rules - A Guide for Laypeople
URL: http://mail.metta.lk/mirror/www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/ariyesako/layguide.html

There are many rules in this document, including: 

Clothing: The Robe
http://mail.metta.lk/mirror/www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/ariyesako/layguide.html#clothing

where it states: 

"Some rules limit the size of robes because cloth in India in those
days was expensive due to the simple methods of spinning and weaving.
Also, so that the robe would not be worth stealing, the cloth always
had to be cut into panels that were then sewn together based on the
design of paddy fields seen from a mountain."

A footnote to that information reads: 

"There is some uncertainty as to the maximum size allowed. (See BMC
p.528) Also, cloth now is not such a luxury and humans nowadays seem
to be physically bigger; so robes can now be found as large as 3 x 2
metres for the upper and outer robes, 2.5 x 1 meter for the skirt
robe."
URL: http://mail.metta.lk/mirror/www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/modern/ariyesako/layguide.html#n67

So, looks like you can make the robes any size up to what is listed
above. If you want to make them smaller, you need to keep the
proportions identical.


As for wrapping the robes, this same site says:

"Slightly varied styles of wearing the traditional set of three robes
have developed over the years in different countries.[69] But
basically, the rectangular shaped robe is put around the body and the
two vertical edges are folded or rolled together. Then either it is
tucked in and secured with a belt (for the skirt-robe) or, for the
larger outer robes, the edge is 'thrown' or flicked over the left
shoulder and pinched under the left arm so that it will not slip off.
There are various techniques for this. (It needs some practice!)"

The footnote referred to above reads:

"For example, in Thailand the double-thickness outer robe is often
'ceremonially' folded over the left shoulder; in Burma the upper robe
sometime reaches high up the neck. And the method of wearing and
rolling the robe-edges will differ from community to community."

I am sorry, but I was not able to find any wrapping instructions more
detailed than these.

websearcher-ga

Request for Answer Clarification by boblag-ga on 05 Nov 2002 15:04 PST
The question has not been adequately answered. The instructions thus
far have given a general idea of how to do only the "skirt" and the
outer top robe. Though these instructions are not all that specific,
they are good enough. None of these instructions, however, accurately
describes how to do the yellow "shirt" part.

Clarification of Answer by websearcher-ga on 05 Nov 2002 20:45 PST
Dear boblag:

I am sorry, but there is no more information I can find on this
subject. Perhaps a visit to (or contacting) an actual Buddhist
monastary might provide the missing bits of information you require.

websearcher-ga
Reason this answer was rejected by boblag-ga:
The instructions do not adequately describe how to carry out the
entire task. Specifically, I found the information regarding the
"skirt" part and the outer robe sufficient and the information on the
"shirt" part insufficient. A partial answer is not good enough in this
case: it's like 2/3 of a recipe.

Comments  
Subject: Re: How to make a Tibetan Buddhist robe
From: journalist-ga on 06 Nov 2002 09:26 PST
 
I must agree with WebResearcher that the best info to be found
currently on the Internet is that which WebResearcher provided.  Good
job, WR, on finding a wealth of info on a topic which hasn't been
adequately shared on the web.

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