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Q: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah ( Answered 5 out of 5 stars,   8 Comments )
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Subject: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
Category: Reference, Education and News > General Reference
Asked by: citizena-ga
List Price: $60.00
Posted: 04 Jul 2005 02:33 PDT
Expires: 03 Aug 2005 02:33 PDT
Question ID: 539757
I am trying to understand the Jewish Calendar and where things
currently stand in their belief. I have several questions. Does the
calendar go for 6,000 years, and what is supposed to happen at the
"end"? (I believe it's in the 5700's now?). How does this relate to
their expectations of A Messaiah and when is he predicted to arrive?
Do all Jews follow this calendar? And lastly, I have heard of a
supposed 220 year error that Jewsish Scholar Eliezer Schulman states
makes the present date innacurate- is this debatable? Thanks.
Answer  
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
Answered By: politicalguru-ga on 04 Jul 2005 05:28 PDT
Rated:5 out of 5 stars
 
Dear Citizena, 

A Very Long Introduction to the Jewish Calendar
=----------------------------------------------

The Jewish calendar (or Hebrew) is based on a mixture of both lunar
months and years defined via a solar cycle (this kind of calendar is
called "lunisolar", see at Wikipedia,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunisolar_calendar>). It has 12 months
in it and 354 days. In leap years, there is a thirteenth month ("Adar
Beth", the second Adar), which would "compensate" for the leap. The
months are not parallel to the Gregorian calendar (the one that we use
on daily basis):
(1) Tishrei - Autumn (usually between September and October, sometimes
even November), (30 days)
(2) Cheshvan (also spelled Heshvan or Marchesvan) (29 or 30 days) (Oct. - Nov)
(3) Kislev (30 or 29 days) (Nov. - Dec.)
(4) Tevet (29 days) (Jan-Feb)
(5) Shevat (30 days) (Feb-March)
(6) Adar (29 days) (March-April)* Here we might have "the second Adar"
that would extend the year, in addition to the first one *
(7) Nisan (30 days) (April- May)
(8) Iyar (29 days) (May-June)
(9) Sivan (30 days) (June-July)
(10) Tammuz (29 days) (July - August)
(11) Av (30 days) (August-September) 
(12) Elul (29 days) (September  - October)

The Jewish year begins therefore in Tishrei, in the autumn, with the
holiday of Rosh Hashanah ("head" of the year), on the first of
Tishrei. The other Jewish holidays also correspond with the agrarian
year: Hanukah (Kislev) comes in the darkest period of the year, and
could be easily portrayed as "the festival of light" (if you know the
Adam Sandler song); Passover (Pessach) comes in Nisan, with the
spring; and Shavuot (the Pentecost) is marked by the harvest, and the
beginning of the summer. You can see a list of Jewish holidays and
their Hebrew calendrical dates at:
Orthodox Union - Jewish Holidays
<http://www.ou.org/chagim/default.htm> 

Judaism 101 has a nice anecdote regarding this: 
"A few years ago, I was in a synagogue, and I overheard one man ask
another, "When is Chanukah this year?" The other man smiled slyly and
replied, "Same as always: the 25th of Kislev." This humorous comment
makes an important point: the date of Jewish holidays does not change
from year to year. Holidays are celebrated on the same day of the
Jewish calendar every year, but the Jewish year is not the same length
as a solar year on the Gregorian calendar used by most of the western
world, so the date shifts on the Gregorian calendar." (SOURCE: Judaism
101, Jewish Calendar, <http://www.jewfaq.org/calendar.htm>).

The calendar dates the creation of the world at 3761 B.C., which
explains how the current year is . 3761 B.C. is the assumed creation
of the world. This might bring up the question, that we *know* today
(given scientific evidence, especially but not only, from evolution
theory) that the world is much older than 5,000 years. Modern Jewish
theologists have various explanations to that, from the fundamentalist
rejection of the evolution theory (which also exists in Christian or
Muslim theology), to explanations such as the distinction between
"Godly years" and "human years" (which also explains the gap between
the theory of evolution and the creation story in the Bible).

The non-theological explanation, of course, is that people in ancient
periods had very little knowledge of the type that we had today, and
"thousand" (not to mention "three thousand") years seemed awfully a
lot to them, enough to let God create the world, and to bring it to
their times.

And why 3761 B.C set as the year of creation? "3760 was calculated by
adding up the ages of people in the Bible back to the time of
creation. However, this does not necessarily mean that the universe
was created less than 6000 years ago as the definition of "years" has
not been a constant throughout history." (SOURCE:  Lisa Katz, "Q. What
is the Hebrew Calendar?", About.com,
<http://judaism.about.com/cs/hebrew/f/calendar_lunar.htm>).

Wikipedia, in their very interesting article on the subject, add,
regarding the methods to set the dates that the "modernisation" of the
calendar, or in other words, a unified date for all Jews, was set in
the 12th century:
"Two major forms of the calendar have been used: an observational form
used before the destruction of the Second Temple in 70 and a
rule-based form first fully described by Maimonides in 1178. The
period between 70 and 1178 is a transition period between the two
forms, with the gradual adoption of more and more of the rules
characteristic of the modern form. Except for the modern year number,
the modern rules reached their final form before 820 or 921, with some
uncertainty regarding when (see below). The modern Hebrew calendar
cannot be used for Biblical dates because new moon dates may be in
error by up to four days and months may be in error by up to four
months. The latter accounts for irregular intercalation such as the
three successive years which were given extra months during the early
second century according to the Talmud." (SOURCE: Wikipedia, The
Hebrew Calendar, <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar>). This
might be part of the answer to your last question, but we'll get to
that.

Between the year 70 (when the Jewish Temple was destroyed by the
Romans) and the year 1178 there were several controversies regarding
the calendar, as many Jews have been exiled by the Romans and did not
live in Palestine anymore. "The current definition of the Jewish
calendar is generally said to have been set down by the Sanhedrin
president Hillel II in approximately C.E. 359." (SOURCE: Calendars
through the Ages, <http://webexhibits.org/calendars/calendar-jewish.html>).


Does the calendar go for 6,000 years, and what is supposed to happen at the
"end"? (I believe it's in the 5700's now?). 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Today is 27th of Sivan, 5765. (see: http://www.hebcal.com/converter/ -
you can also find out what is your Hebrew birthday and other such neat
things).

Is the calendar, according to Judaism, going to end in 235 years? 

The answer is no. There is no "expiry date" to the Hebrew calendar. In
general, and I'll refer to it in the "Messiah" part of this answer,
Judaism is much less of an apocalyptic/millenarian religion than
Christianity in the terms of having set dates for the coming of the
Messiah or for the "end of the world".

However, like every religion, Judaism has also its share of mystics
and apocalyptic predictions:
"In the words of the Babylonian Talmud: "The world as we know it
(earth) will exist solely for 6,000 years (beginning with Adam and
Eve). The first 2,000 years will be defined by chaos. The second 2,000
years will mark the years of Torah. The final 2,000 years will include
the Messianic Age." Mystics explain this cryptic passage as an
amazingly prescient script not only for the past but for the future as
well.
[...]
The first 2,000 years -- called simply chaos -- are the years before
monotheism made its appearance on earth. Abraham was 52-years-old when
he intuited that there had to be one God responsible for the creation
of a carefully designed and incredibly intricate world. The date on
the Hebrew calendar marking this great discovery, an insight that
would decidedly alter the history of civilization, was exactly 2,000."
(SOURCE: Benjamin Blech, "Y2K, Jewish Perspective", AISH,
<http://www.aish.com/societywork/society/Why_2K$.asp>).

"It is worth noting that the Talmud, in the tractate Avodah Zarah,
page 9A, states that this world as we know it will only exist for six
thousand years:
"...The Tanna Debey Eliyahu taught: The world is to exist six thousand
years; the first two thousand are to be "void" [of Torah], the next
two thousand are the period of the Torah [from Abraham until the
completion of the Mishna - the first part of the Talmud], and the
following [last] two thousand are the period of the Messiah [i.e., the
Messianic Age could commence during this time]; through our [the
Jews'] sins a number of these [times for the Messiah's coming] have
already passed [and the Messiah has not come yet]."" (SOURCE:
Wikipedia, End of the World,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_of_the_world_(religion)>).

However, there is another interesting phenomenon that might be related
to it, and might have influenced that myth. As you've seem from the
number of the days in the years, and the discrepancies between the
Hebrew and the Gregorian months, there is a gap between the two
calendars. And in very very slow term, this gap between those
calendars decreases: according to Remy Landau, in the year 22,203
(Gregorian), instead of adding 3761 to the Gregorian year in order to
know the Hebrew one, you'd have to add 3760). (SOURCE: Remy Landau,
"The 3761 Myth", in: Hebrew Calendar Science and Myths,
<http://www.geocities.com/Athens/1584/#24>).


How does this relate to their expectations of A Messiah and when is he
predicted to arrive?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The "annoited king" (the literal meaning of the term "Melech
HaMashiah" in Hebrew), according to mainstream Jewish belief, would
come, reunite Israel and bring prosperity. The Messiah will be human
(although some understand that he'd have supernatural powers as well).

There is no prediction when the Messiah would come in mainstream
Judaism, the Messiah would come when the conditions would suit it:
Jewish Messiah 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Messiah> 

Chabad, Ikvot Meshicha: The Time Immediately Before Mashiach
<http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=100900> (note: some
part of the Chabad movements have claimed that their leader is the
Messiah during the late 1990s).

Therefore, it would be wrong to assume that a certain year has
importance for mainstream Judaism.


An Important Note
-----------------
I've found the reference to the year 6,000 mostly in Christian
millenarian sites. Even if these phrases exist in Jewish mysticism,
they are not widely used in Jewish theology, in any case, not in the
sense that such things exist in Christian theology.

In fact, many of these sites are the type of sites that mixed the two
theories to claim that the world is going to end (or that the Second
Coming is due) in 2000, because 5760 (the Jewish year in 2000) + 240
(the error) = 6,000.

I haven't found it in any Jewish source. These are good examples,
because it contains most of the myths that you've referred to: a 240
years error (which has been allegedly done to reject Jesus as the
Messiah), the year 6,000, etc.:
What Everyone Should Know about Roman and Hebrew CALENDARS! 
<http://www.dccsa.com/greatjoy/roman.htm> 

Torah Voice "Millennium Fever Catching As Year 6000 Approaches" 
<http://www.torahvoice.org/6000.htm> (despite the Jewish name, and
terminology in the article, it is a Messianic site, not a 
representative of any stream of Jewish thought).

We Are In the Millennium Now! Here?s proof! 
<http://jacksonsnyder.com/arc/2001%20-%202/Millennium%20Now.htm> 


Do all Jews follow this calendar?
---------------------------------
Yes, all observant Jews do, in terms of holidays, the weekly Parasha
(section from the Bible that is to be read), etc. However, most Jews
use the Gregorian calendar in everyday life (as you could have seen
from the anecdote before, about "when is Hanukah this year").


Eliezer Shulman and the Calendar
--------------------------------
Shulman did not engage directly in the study of the calendar. He did
it as part of a wider study on the "Sequence of Events in the Old
Testament". The type of gaps that he might have found are all related
to those possible problems that might have existed also between the
year 70 and 1178. Shulman's main claim is regarding Jubilee calendars
and the fact that the Jewish observance of the Jubilee during the era
before the destruction of the Temple, would have caused a difference
in calculating the years.

However, it is not a controversy in the sense that there are Jews who
would not accept Maimonides' calendar. It is, if any, a scientific
controversy, which is not theologically discussed. It should be
mentioned, though, that "Karaites use the lunar month and the solar
year, but determine when to add a leap month by observing the ripening
of barley in Israel, rather than a fixed calendar. This occasionally
puts them a month out of sync with the rest of the Jews. (For several
centuries, most Karaites, especially outside Israel, have kept in step
with other Jews for the sake of simplicity. However, in recent years
many Karaites have reverted to their traditional practice.)"
(Wikipedia, Hebrew calendar,
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_calendar>). This, as part of
their general rejection of mainstream rabbinical Judaism.

I hope this answers your question. Please contact me if you need any
clarification on this answer, before you rate it.

Request for Answer Clarification by citizena-ga on 04 Jul 2005 12:17 PDT
Thanks, politicalguru. It seems pretty comprehensive but please give
me a day to read  through before closing. In the meantime please take
a look at this http://www.lamblion.com/articles/prophecy/Jews-Israel/Jews-09.php
Let me know what you think of it's accuracy. Thanks. CitizenGA

Clarification of Answer by politicalguru-ga on 04 Jul 2005 14:46 PDT
Thank you, it made a very interesting reading. Within the context of
its writing, it is also quite an accurate article. Why do I add this
reservation?

First of all, naturally Reagan accepts the version of the world's age,
and relies on pre-Darwinian scietists to prove it. This is also one of
the foundations of his argument in favour of the 240-years-gap theory.

Because of the part where Reagan gets to the conclusions, and claims
that the reason that the Jewish calendar hasn't been amended is in
order to deny the fact that Christ might be the Messiah. This
"conspiracy" theory does not, in fact, comprehend, with other ideas
represented in the article, namely that:
- There is also difference between the probable "real" year when
Christ was born and the annu domini. Christ was probably born in 4 BC
(yes, it is a bit funny to write that Christ was born "4 years Before
Christ"). Why, then, won't the Christians amend their calendars to
reflect the "real" year of Christ's birth?
- As he writes himself, people did not have the same concepts of time
as today. The gap, if it indeed exists, could be attributed to several
reasons such as Jubilee Years, errors in counting, or historical
knowledge about some periods that did not exist at that time, and not
due to some "conspiracy".

Request for Answer Clarification by citizena-ga on 05 Jul 2005 01:02 PDT
I would be all ready to go, except I'm still a little confused about
the 6000 year thing. I admittedly have not had the time yet to go
through all the links and text, but you stated: "I haven't found it in
any Jewish source. These are good examples,because it contains most of
the myths that you've referred to: 240
years error (which has been allegedly done to reject Jesus as the
Messiah), the year 6,000". Yet do not the Jews (orthodox at least)
believe that the Earth was created 3761 years ago (plus the current
year)? That makes it pretty close to a 6000 year concept. And though I
had at first thought that  Bishop Ussher a couple hundred years ago
was the one to come up with that concept,  it's in the Talmud? Or am I
mixing things up in that even though we are in Jewish year 5761, it
has nothing to do with the "Earth is 6000 years-old Christian" idea?
Thanks.

Clarification of Answer by politicalguru-ga on 05 Jul 2005 01:09 PDT
Maybe I wasn't clear enough. 

I haven't found any echo to the idea that the year 6000 is the "expiry
date" of the calendar, and very few - if any - Jewish references to
the apocalyptic idea, that the Messiah is due to come in the year
6000. That doesn't mean, first of all, that such ideas do not exist in
Judaism. Second, this of course doesn't mean that we're not in 5765,
which is "almost" 6000.

As for Christian quotes from the Talmud, although I cannot attest to
this one, let me refer you to this question:
 Finding Talmud, Bab., Sanhedrin, Chap. 4, fol. 37, recto online
<http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=526728> 

Many passages have not yet been translated into English, and many
quote the Talmud without any foundation.
citizena-ga rated this answer:5 out of 5 stars and gave an additional tip of: $10.00
Thank you for the excellent research, and answering point by point on
a an extensive topic. Very professional work! And I have some good
links to check out as well.

Comments  
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: numair-ga on 04 Jul 2005 05:55 PDT
 
nice copy pasting there
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: testing20000-ga on 04 Jul 2005 07:15 PDT
 
Only quoted messages are copied and pasted.
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: nelson-ga on 04 Jul 2005 12:09 PDT
 
Of course, non-hysterical Christians (Catholic, main-stream
Protestant, Eastern) subscribe to the words of Jesus: "You will know
neither the hour nor the day."
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: pugwashjw-ga on 04 Jul 2005 20:30 PDT
 
Matthew 24;36 " Concerning that day and hour, nobody knows, neither
the angels of the heavens, NOR the son, but ONLY the Father". This
scripture relates to Armageddon, not the arrival, or second coming of
Jesus. The two are not the same. Matthew 24;44 " On this account, you
too prove yourselves ready, because at an hour that you do not think
to be it, the son of man is coming".
A publication printed by The Watchtower Society [ Jehovahs Witnesses],
"reasoning from the scriptures" page 97, gives a very lucid
explanation of the prophetic times mentioned in the Bible. It gives
the date of Jesus' installation as King of the promised 'Kingdom of
the heavens' as 1914. [ the seven times prophecy, along with pertinent
scriptures]. There is a big difference between Matt. 24;36 & 44. The
first states NO ONE knows, and the second ;'at an hour you think to be
it' leaves open the option to investigate. If 1914 is the same time
that Jesus, as Michael, cast Satan out of heaven, with his angels, to
the vicinity of the earth [ Rev.12; 7-9, 12,13] that goes a long way
to explaining why the world has been in turmoil since then. Even
though the world had wars before then, there was a form of chivalry or
propriety associated with them. But none since 1914. The subject
requires an open mind.
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: nelson-ga on 05 Jul 2005 04:11 PDT
 
Watchtower is not exactly the epitome of reliability.
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: wordsmth-ga on 05 Jul 2005 13:38 PDT
 
Good answer by politicalguru. Regarding the 6000 year issue, that's
not something that Jews generally believe. (In fact, I don't know any
who believe that. I'm a conservative Jew; my son went to a Lubavitcher
school for years.) Jews do look forward to Moschiach. See, for
example, http://www.chabad.org/search/keyword.asp?kid=237

But it'll happen when it happens.
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: politicalguru-ga on 06 Jul 2005 00:34 PDT
 
Citizena, 

Thank you for the rating and the tip!
Subject: Re: Question on Jewsish Calendar and Messiah
From: moshiach-ga on 05 Sep 2005 18:39 PDT
 
<< Does the calendar go for 6,000 years, and what is supposed to
happen at the "end"? (I believe it's in the 5700's now?). How does
this relate to
their expectations of A Messaiah and when is he predicted to arrive?
Do all Jews follow this calendar?>>

The Talmud does actually state (www.mechon-mamre.org/b/l/l4411.htm)
that the world as we know it will last 6,000 years, and this is a
basic Jewish belief. See:
://www.google.co.il/search?q=%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%AA+%D7%90%D7%9C%D7%A4%D7%99%D7%9D+%D7%99%D7%9E%D7%95%D7%AA+%D7%94%D7%9E%D7%A9%D7%99%D7%97&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official
for references in Hebrew, and see:
http://moshiach.com/discover/index.php?page=index_v2&id=57&c=2.

The Jewish belief in the Messiah is independant of their use with a
unique calendar system -- it is one of the 13 Jewish principles of
faith. See: http://moshiach.com/discover/index.php?page=index_v1&c=13

Most Jews use the Solar calendar in their day to day business, but all
religious holidays are observed according to the Jewish solar-lunar
calendar.

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